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Subject: Jeep rss

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Scott Mansfield
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Can someone give a clearer rules/mechanic breakdown of how to use the jeep, I feel the rules governing it's use straddle the line between the vehicle and infantry rules?

Some questions I'm having:

1. Unlike trucks there's no inherent crew, so does the jeep need to have an embarked unit in order to issue the jeep a move order?

2. If so, is the mechanics sequence to use/move the jeep;
a. issue an order to a unit to embark onto the jeep
b. issue an order to activate the jeep
c. move the jeep during the vehicle phase

At the moment, I'm trying to use it to gather up casualties, a pretty obvious use I know but would like clarification that I'm doing so correctly.

Cheers,
Scott
 
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Peter
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srmansfield wrote:
Can someone give a clearer rules/mechanic breakdown of how to use the jeep, I feel the rules governing it's use straddle the line between the vehicle and infantry rules?

Some questions I'm having:

1. Unlike trucks there's no inherent crew, so does the jeep need to have an embarked unit in order to issue the jeep a move order?

2. If so, is the mechanics sequence to use/move the jeep;
a. issue an order to a unit to embark onto the jeep
b. issue an order to activate the jeep
c. move the jeep during the vehicle phase

At the moment, I'm trying to use it to gather up casualties, a pretty obvious use I know but would like clarification that I'm doing so correctly.

Cheers,
Scott

As I see it

1. Yes, a jeep needs to have a driver/operator, which is a unit embarked on the jeep. A jeep does not have an inherent crew. [7.4.3] It has a transport limit of 2, so one "driver" step, and then can carry only one casualty step. [vehicle tables, also on counter, 7.4]

2. Yes, that seems right to me.
a. (order unit to embark on the jeep -- move order "h"). Could be the XO ordering himself, e.g., or order another one-step unit on the jeep.
b. (activate the vehicle -- command order "i"). Now it moves in the Vehicle Movement and Combat Phase
c. (as you said, move the vehicle to the card the casualty is located)

Then... the following

NOTE: there is an ambiguity in the rules as to casualties. Text referring to casualties includes both embark/disembark, and load/unload. This makes a difference only in the procedure for getting a casualty off of a vehicle and back onto the card for collection. The following sequence assumes casualties are "unloaded" through an additional order, and not "disembarking" themselves automatically. (If you choose the other way then step "g" is unnecessary as casualty units can disembark for free during step "f").

d. (issue load casualty command on the vehicle -- move "h"). The casualty is loaded into the jeep.
e. (activate the vehicle again -- command order "i").
f. (move in the Veh. Movement and Combat Phase to card with the extraction point).
g. (issue unload casualty command on the vehicle -- move "h"). The casualty is unloaded onto the card.

Later in the turn with step "g."
In clean up phase, Casualties are evacuated. [3.8]


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Scott Mansfield
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Quote:
The following sequence assumes casualties are "unloaded" through an additional order, and not "disembarking" themselves automatically. (If you choose the other way then step "g" is unnecessary as casualty units can disembark for free during step "f")


Thanks Peter, I think I've been playing it correctly, the only issue remaining is whether a casualty can disembark themselves for free or need an unload order?
 
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John Gorski
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d2necro wrote:
srmansfield wrote:
Can someone give a clearer rules/mechanic breakdown of how to use the jeep, I feel the rules governing it's use straddle the line between the vehicle and infantry rules?

Some questions I'm having:

1. Unlike trucks there's no inherent crew, so does the jeep need to have an embarked unit in order to issue the jeep a move order?

2. If so, is the mechanics sequence to use/move the jeep;
a. issue an order to a unit to embark onto the jeep
b. issue an order to activate the jeep
c. move the jeep during the vehicle phase

At the moment, I'm trying to use it to gather up casualties, a pretty obvious use I know but would like clarification that I'm doing so correctly.

Cheers,
Scott

As I see it

1. Yes, a jeep needs to have a driver/operator, which is a unit embarked on the jeep. A jeep does not have an inherent crew. [7.4.3] It has a transport limit of 2, so one "driver" step, and then can carry only one casualty step. [vehicle tables, also on counter, 7.4]

2. Yes, that seems right to me.
a. (order unit to embark on the jeep -- move order "h"). Could be the XO ordering himself, e.g., or order another one-step unit on the jeep.
b. (activate the vehicle -- command order "i"). Now it moves in the Vehicle Movement and Combat Phase
c. (as you said, move the vehicle to the card the casualty is located)

Then... the following

NOTE: there is an ambiguity in the rules as to casualties. Text referring to casualties includes both embark/disembark, and load/unload. This makes a difference only in the procedure for getting a casualty off of a vehicle and back onto the card for collection. The following sequence assumes casualties are "unloaded" through an additional order, and not "disembarking" themselves automatically. (If you choose the other way then step "g" is unnecessary as casualty units can disembark for free during step "f").

d. (issue load casualty command on the vehicle -- move "h"). The casualty is loaded into the jeep.
e. (activate the vehicle again -- command order "i").
f. (move in the Veh. Movement and Combat Phase to card with the extraction point).
g. (issue unload casualty command on the vehicle -- move "h"). The casualty is unloaded onto the card.

Later in the turn with step "g."
In clean up phase, Casualties are evacuated. [3.8]




I absolutely love Fields of Fire and it's entire concept and I understand that the game hinges on the idea of Command management. Having said that, however, this exercise makes things too gamey for me.

For example: picture, say, the XO standing next to a jeep in an open field. A squad is present with a casualty. According to RAW the XO would point to a guy in the squad to tell him to detach (1 Command). Then he would say load the casualty (2nd Command). Then he would order the detached trooper to get in the jeep (3rd Command). Finally, he would tell the driver to take the casualty to the collection point (vehicle Activation, 4th Command). This seems way too micro-managey to me.

The way I play (RAW notwithstanding), is to try to model most closely how I think things would play out in real situations. The XO would probably be busy prioritizing and sorting out the combat situation and would simply order someone to evacuate the casualty. For me, this entails one Command to assign a drive and load the casualty and a second Command to activate the jeep. I realize I may be skipping steps here but it otherwise seems too cumbersome, particularly if the area is taking fire. The XO's concentration will be on the enemy while just wanting to get the casualty out of harm's way.

I might consider compromising by having the whole process of detaching, embarking and loading the casualty be a 2 Command process. I still can't imagine a Commander micro-managing casualty removal.

So that's how I'll do it.
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Peter
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I agree it is a lot of commands. Whether that is realistic in the abstract representation of "commands" is a guess on my part. However, the great additional thing about FoF is you can modify it to your heart's content to have make it more enjoyable for you.


I imagine this situation going something like this:

(1) XO: hey, Jenkins and McCoy! I need you for something, so get over here!
(grumbling Jenkins and McCoy head over)
(squad leader Edgars looks confused)
XO: yes Edgars, they are mine now -- move along
(Edgars curses under his breath)

(2) XO: Boys, load that casualty on the jeep!!
(they grab the casualty and put it in the jeep)

(3) XO: Okay boys, you're gonna drive this jeep around for me.
(slightly suspiciously, they get in the jeep)

(4) XO: okay, you guys are gonna drive that jeep to the casualty evac point.
Jenkins: where is that?
(XO rolls eyes)
XO: it's back through that field and turn left at the big barn and head to the orchard. Can you follow that?
Jenkins: back by the cemetery?
XO (fuming): NO! By the barn. Now get going!!!

I could definitely see that being only 2 "commands" worth of direction, maybe 3.

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Jerry Tresman
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Except normally it would be a platoon HQ not XO , although keeping a commander in reserve that can also be used to aid evacuation etc.is good practice. You certainly do not want to have all your command and control in the line of fire, you need to consider evacuation and rally actions.

Use of vehicles would normally be platoon HQ or higher.


You would use a transport command and activate the vehicle.
5.1.6

Having a unit or a vehicle perform a Transport Action allows that unit to acquire or off load assets, casualties, prisoners, ammunition, or passengers. You can use this Action in three different situations: to have a unit pick up or drop off items, to have a unit embark on or disembark from a vehicle, or to have a vehicle load or unload items.



1. You wouldn't normally have a lone jeep in the forward firing area on its own.

2. You generally need a clear path to evacuate casualties , especially if using litter teams.


Ideally use a litter team (if in frontline with an escort e.g. a 1 or 2 step unit) to transport a casualty , if you have a spare jeep without a "driver" in an area with the casualty, I would use a transport command for say a litter team to load itself and the casualty on the jeep.


You can use your general order from the General Initiative Impulse

When the card is clear of enemy VoF have a litter team pick up the casualty and move it back towards staging area or area with a jeep. Its already transporting it so another transport command will load both.

Or have a unit embark(transport) onto a jeep and go and pick up casualty (transport)


h. Transport Have the unit pick up items from the card or from a different unit, have a vehicle unit load or unload ammunition or casualties (see 5.1.3), or have an infantry unit embark on or disembark from a vehicle (see 7.4).

7.4.1 To embark an infantry unit (per 1.2.3. that is any non-vehicle unit) or casualties onto a vehicle, have the vehicle perform a Transport Action during the Command Phase. Place an Exposed Marker on the vehicle if it does not already have one.

Detaching would definitely be a separate command decision it has so many implications , one command to detatch and one command to transport is no more expensive or different than other 2 cost commands. If you have casualties you will also likely have a few 1 step or litter teams hanging around. I would rather convert a paralyzed team to a litter team and order it to transport than detach a fire team from a squad.


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John Gorski
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Exactly! I love the way the Command system works.

To continue with your example:

Edgars, still confused and perhaps even a bit overwhelmed, it being his first mission (Green), comes under fire from a HMG nest in a bunker to the north he doesn't see and a squad he doesn't see to the northwest (unlucky resolution of a PC A by a patrol he sent out last turn). Trying to make up his mind what to do (Command draw of 3; turns to 2 due to his being Green), he can't decide whether to have his men look for cover or try to spot the enemy. He tries to spot the enemy to the north but fails so he dives under cover. Luckily, his first squad took initiative and also dove for cover. Second squad is still out in the open, taking fire and looking lost.

No game I know of creates its own narrative the way Fields of Fire does.
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Holman
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Are we sure the Jeep doesn't include an inherent driver?

No other vehicles in the game (tanks, helicopters) require steps to operate them.
 
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Andreas Krüger
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For first edition, I am sure.
 
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Jerry Tresman
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Thamos von Nostria wrote:
For first edition, I am sure.


2nd edition to.
 
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The other Euro guy
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7.1.1 wrote:
Jeeps and similar small vehicles have no crew. Whatever unit is embarked on it functions as the driver.
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Paul Cockburn
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Who is allowed to activate the Jeep?

Can it be any HQ or CO Staff which is in visual/verbal communication?

Does the Jeep have to be assigned to a specific Platoon (at the start of the mission) so that the other Platoons are not able to order it around?
 
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Jerry Tresman
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mathmethman wrote:
Who is allowed to activate the Jeep?

Can it be any HQ or CO Staff which is in visual/verbal communication?

Does the Jeep have to be assigned to a specific Platoon (at the start of the mission) so that the other Platoons are not able to order it around?


Any HQ can activate it 4.2.1 i if it is unpinned.

The jeep is not assigned to any unit.

It needs to be activated and then a 1or 2 step (or 1 step unit carrying a casualty) is ordered to embark 4.2.2 h


The loaded unit then is both passenger and driver.
 
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