Massimiliano della Rovere
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Is there any card telling you to do so?
 
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Crazed Survivor
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Card 777. That's the only one.
 
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Simo Ahava
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Razoupaf wrote:
Card 777. That's the only one.

Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but
Spoiler (click to reveal)
doesn't the treasure you find via the treasure map also let you recreate the action deck?


EDIT: Spoiler for a 050 card side quest
 
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Crazed Survivor
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sahava wrote:
Razoupaf wrote:
Card 777. That's the only one.

Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but
Spoiler (click to reveal)
doesn't the treasure you find via the treasure map also let you recreate the action deck?


EDIT: Spoiler for a 050 card side quest


No.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
It lets you shuffle 30 cards and get rid of some states but it doesn't say recreate the action deck from the discard pile.
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Simo Ahava
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Gotcha, thanks for the refresher!
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Federico Galeotti
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Firenze
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I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.
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Razoupaf wrote:
sahava wrote:
Razoupaf wrote:
Card 777. That's the only one.

Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but
Spoiler (click to reveal)
doesn't the treasure you find via the treasure map also let you recreate the action deck?


EDIT: Spoiler for a 050 card side quest


No.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
It lets you shuffle 30 cards and get rid of some states but it doesn't say recreate the action deck from the discard pile.


Not entirely correct.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
There are actually 3 different Treasure Maps and you are talking about two different ones. Anyway none of the treasures found with the maps lets you recreate the action deck.
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Razoupaf wrote:
Card 777. That's the only one.


So you have to complete the whole game without reshuffiling? Am I missing something?
 
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Matthew Twomey
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You replenish cards into your action deck via other means, such as hunting.
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Crazed Survivor
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mtwomey wrote:
You replenish cards into your action deck via other means, such as hunting.


Mostly hunting to my dismay. I'm sick of hunting :-S

There are other ways to refill a big part of your deck but they are one-time only and usually pretty hard to get.

So far I've found:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
- Frankenstein's It's Alive card.
- 2 idols
Spoiler (click to reveal)
one from a treasure map
Spoiler (click to reveal)
one from digging on an elongated islet that can totally mess you up if you don't draw the right card

- Playing with multiple curses
Spoiler (click to reveal)
and lifting one.


 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I think some people here have different ideas of certain words... What has been discussed is that there is no way of shuffling the entire discard pile to create a new action deck.

There are certainly many ways to take cards out of a discard pile to recreate a depleted action deck, though. This is what you will need to use to stay alive as you solve the Curse/s
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Ren
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Clipper wrote:
What has been discussed is that there is no way of shuffling the entire discard pile to create a new action deck.


Actually there is at least one:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
if you're playing with multiple curses
Spoiler (click to reveal)
and have the Dark Chest
Spoiler (click to reveal)
lifting that curse will let you reshuffle everything in the discard into the action deck.
 
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Matthew Twomey
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I think the OP is likely just getting started and was thinking perhaps the goal was to lift the curse before going through the action deck once - e.g. his query "am I missing something?" (because that would be nearly or completely impossible).

What he was missing is that the game mechanic to not run out of cards in the action deck is _not_ reshuffling the entire discard pile (generally speaking). It's taking actions that replenish the action deck from the discard pile.
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mtwomey wrote:
I think the OP is likely just getting started and was thinking perhaps the goal was to lift the curse before going through the action deck once - e.g. his query "am I missing something?" (because that would be nearly or completely impossible).

What he was missing is that the game mechanic to not run out of cards in the action deck is _not_ reshuffling the entire discard pile (generally speaking). It's taking actions that replenish the action deck from the discard pile.


Exactly! thank you!

I think this should be in the rulebook!
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Jorgen Peddersen
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masdero wrote:
Exactly! thank you!

I think this should be in the rulebook!

Uh...

Rulebook p17 wrote:
When an effect allows players to shuffle cards back
into the Action Deck from the Discard Pile, they re-form
the Action Deck with the corresponding cards. Players
will then resume drawing from the Action Deck as usual,
since it now contains cards again, and flip the
Discard Pile face up.
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Matthew Twomey
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The general idea of "here's how you survive" isn't really called out in the rule book (I don't think).

To be fair, if I hadn't been watching videos, reading rules, and generally following the campaign for two years - e.g. if I just Kickstarted it and never looked at it again until I opened the box, I likely would have been confused by that too.

A statement such as "When you run out of cards in your action deck - you'll start risking death. The game will present opportunities for you to move cards from your discard pile back into your action deck - you'll need to work hard to discover and use them." would make that clear for the uninitiated.
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mtwomey wrote:
The general idea of "here's how you survive" isn't really called out in the rule book (I don't think).

To be fair, if I hadn't been watching videos, reading rules, and generally following the campaign for two years - e.g. if I just Kickstarted it and never looked at it again until I opened the box, I likely would have been confused by that too.

A statement such as "When you run out of cards in your action deck - you'll start risking death. The game will present opportunities for you to move cards from your discard pile back into your action deck - you'll need to work hard to discover and use them." would make that clear for the uninitiated.


This is exactly my doubt: the game is about lifting 1+ curses and surviving.
Until your clarification, how to survive was the really vague to me.

Thanks!
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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mtwomey wrote:
A statement such as "When you run out of cards in your action deck - you'll start risking death. The game will present opportunities for you to move cards from your discard pile back into your action deck - you'll need to work hard to discover and use them." would make that clear for the uninitiated.


So what you are asking for is...
Rules p3 wrote:
Want to stack all the odds in your favor? You may choose
to draw more cards from the Action Deck to get more
successes. However, every card in the Action Deck is a bit
of your life force and when the Action Deck is exhausted,
so are you – then, every action might well be your last.
and
Rules p3 wrote:
Note : as you play, you will discover that if you
want to beat the 7th Continent and lift your
curses, you will need to use your very best
survival skills – gather food (by hunting or
fishing, for instance) in order to regain some
life force, craft items to help you survive
dangerous situations, boost the Action Deck
with Advanced Skill cards you can gain by
spending the precious experience points you
have earned, and so on.


The Life Force section on p17-18 also has a lot about your goals and gives an example of bringing cards back from the discards to recreate the action deck.
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Matthew Twomey
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@Clipper It sounds like it was very clear to you. That's good (and cheers!) However I see no harm is suggesting it be stated outright to make things easier for newcomers.
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Bitchy Little Boy
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Different people read rules and learn games (two very different things) very differently. Therefore, beyond a certain point - this game is very close to - making the rules clearer for one group of players means making them less clear for all the others.

I think it is more likely that misunderstandings arise because a) this game requires you to start playing with an imperfect understanding of what to expect from it - so there is a lack of examples/specific details on certain issues and/or b) without being a complex game, the game is heavier than the connect-the-dots it appears to be at first sight.

The first issue frustrated myself and meant I died/misplayed the game three or for times before I could start in earnest. However, in my case, this has become the good part of this game: try, try for a couple of evenings until I now have the skills (and a little luck) to arrive at the middle of the first journey in reasonably good shape.

Watching Rahdo had almost pushed me toward the second misconception with his contagious enthusiasm and eagerness to show everything in less than an hour. Luckily, I've learned do catch his discrete warnings and hints and once I had the game into my own hands I quickly realised it was more than "oh no, let's not get into the mysterious sub without some unnamed special preparations first" and I could put his suggestions and careful choices in the right perspective.

The American method of technical writing may have been better (it usually is). Still, those rules do an excellent job of explaining what was intended to be explained before the start of the game and they do it with exquisite style, it's the French way - rational and logical, with just a hint of frivolity - at its best. I remember how easy to grasp and intuitive the rules of Twilight Struggle seemed until I started interacting with the cards and I played a lot of things wrong and was puzzled by a lot of edge cases. Which is actually may point: there is only so much one can do to make the rules clear for anybody. Beyond this point it is the different players' task to make the rules clearer for themselves. E. g. I usually do this by translating the rulebook, or by designing my own instructional presentation of a game.
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Matthew Twomey
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gmilitaru wrote:
Therefore, beyond a certain point - this game is very close to - making the rules clearer for one group of players means making them less clear for all the others.


Yeah, good point. I think a lot of games overdo it to the point of actually creating confusion (as you're indicating). However, I don't agree that the rulebook for this game is bordering on crossing that threshold.

I understand the "no spoiler" intent of the rulebook and truly appreciate the aim to maximize the amount of "discovery" available to the player. However, most of us didn't discover this particular point on our own anyhow. It's been in reviews and videos, on the Kickstarter page and in BGG threads, and KS updates and comments, ...etc.

I think if this game just "hit the shelf" without a Kickstarter or any pre-release fanfare, a lot of folks would have a lot of questions and the rule book wouldn't win any awards. I'm definitely not saying it's bad - I actually think it's decent. I just think there's definitely room for improvement.
 
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C&H Schmidt
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I think it's a good rule book, and I love how intuitive the game is -- you can really start playing almost right away. I also appreciate that it is so comparatively thin.

About the point at hand... I don't know, I think the rule book makes it clear, and I find it very hard to miss -- but I've myself missed rules that one would think hard to miss, it probably happens to every gamer occasionally! It just happens if you only read the rule book once or not very carefully.
And of course there's no harm in asking; now the OP knows.
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mtwomey wrote:
@Clipper It sounds like it was very clear to you. That's good (and cheers!) However I see no harm is suggesting it be stated outright to make things easier for newcomers.


Clipper's right, my question should have been expressed better, even though some hints came from the various replies
 
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