Craig B
Australia
Mount Hawthorn
Western Australia
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I love this game.

We were playing a 4 player game of this tonight. We had ALL played this game at least once before and were familiar with the rules, but I had never played this game with one of the people (who just so happened to have the biggest AP i've ever experienced!!!! [I thought the threads on here in the main gaming forum were a lie!]. I'm quite happy for my opponents to take 5 minutes on particular turns in a game like Yamatai or something where you can see they are having to weigh up two options and it's at the peak point of the game from a complexity standpoint so it's only going to happen once or twice in the game. Personally I am a very fast player, that usually (unless what you do on your turn changes anything) has already worked out what they're going to do / need to accomplish on my turn ahead of time so I find it really hard to relate.

===========================

On their turn FROM THE VERY START they took ~5 minutes to take their turn. They were second play and the first player took an irrigation piece and an objective card, so LITERALLY NOTHING HAD CHANGED. My turned averaged about 30 seconds. With two of my turns taking 5 seconds (double action, take 2 irrigation, take 2 objectives).
1 guy then spent about an hour and half on his phone, me and the other guy discussed the sporting game as we didn't want to express our frustration or distract them from whatever they were clearly thinking about.

I didn't say anything the whole game but it WENT FOREVER. On her turn she even pulled out her phone at the start of her turn (RATHER THAN DURING ANY OF OUR TURNS) and decided to take photos of the game in progress.... making her turn take 10 minutes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me and one of the other guys quickly left and got in the car as the night was dead after this having been on a high from watching a classic sporting game earlier.

If you also have AP, what could help you to not take 5 minutes to take your turn in this game? You have only 2 actions to take and the objective cards in your hand should drive the decision making. They weren't even confused by what the objective cards meant as I clarified this when they asked on their first and second turns.

I'm probably never playing with this person again unless you guys have good suggestions. I could not believe this game could cause AP. But well it has. I've played 2 games of this and another game in the time it took to play one of this tonight.

Fire away.
 
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Nigel Harris
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Sale
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I'm thinking of some great suggestions, just give me a minute...
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Molokov (AU)
Australia
Adelaide
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I can't imagine AP in Takenoko early in the game - first everyone really needs to help place plot tiles and irrigate them, and the only really deliberation is in where to place them (presumably to help achieve a plot objective)

Later in the game, yes, some thinking is required as you have to think about how to e.g. move the gardener or the panda effectively to fulfil your gardener objectives, or to decide which actions will help you get the other objectives in your hand complete before someone triggers end game.

But I suspect that this player you were with was just not all that interested in playing a game and hopefully they're not like this with *all* games, even simple fillers that shouldn't take more than 20 minutes.

Takenoko is fairly meaty for a family-weight game, but it's still one that's mostly tactical so there shouldn't be super-long periods of thought as it's rare that you need to weigh up too many choices at once (usually, it's: which two actions are going to help me achieve my objectives the fastest?)
 
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Bill Cook
United States
Massachusetts
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AP in Takenoko? Really? I fear what this person is like in Tokaido.

It's a silly little game about a panda bear eating bamboo. Scientific studies have proved that if you plan more than one turn head, karma is twice as likely to cause one of the other players to foil your plans. And if you act quickly, karma is twice as likely to cause one of the other players to help you.

Seriously, you guys shouldn't have put up with AP here. Say something, and move the game along.
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Sven F.
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yogibbear wrote:
I didn't say anything the whole game [...]


But WHY? Why didn't you say something??

That's both a question and an answer, I think...
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Craig B
Australia
Mount Hawthorn
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Fomalhaut wrote:
yogibbear wrote:
I didn't say anything the whole game [...]


But WHY? Why didn't you say something??

That's both a question and an answer, I think...


Well I didn't want to offend them. Next time I'm going to tell them off then. We'll see how it goes, if I don't report back, please assume the worst and I've been baked into a stew!
 
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Scott Hill
United Kingdom
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Cambridgeshire
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So, my friends tell me I have AP.

But, this doesn't sound like an AP problem. The game is simply not complex enough to cause AP.
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Craig B
Australia
Mount Hawthorn
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
So, my friends tell me I have AP.

But, this doesn't sound like an AP problem. The game is simply not complex enough to cause AP.


What if a really stupid person had AP would a simple game cause them to have AP?
 
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Henk de Nijs
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Was it AP? Also sounds as if this person wasn't really interested in playing. And only started thinking about what to do when it was their turn
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Craig B
Australia
Mount Hawthorn
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simhenk wrote:
Was it AP? Also sounds as if this person wasn't really interested in playing. And only started thinking about what to do when it was their turn


They pulled the game out and told us they wanted to play it. sobluecryshake
 
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Gergo Tothmihaly
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Try to play a coop with them and while doing so ask them to share their thought process when they are thinking.
It's a coop so it's completely OK to discuss things and it could help you understand what/how they think while they are struggling to do something.
 
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Craig B
Australia
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tmgergo wrote:
Try to play a coop with them and while doing so ask them to share their thought process when they are thinking.
It's a coop so it's completely OK to discuss things and it could help you understand what/how they think while they are struggling to do something.


Aha! Thankyou! This is what I was after. Will do.
 
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Gergo Tothmihaly
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Forgot to say: this is simply what I would try. I don't have AP or tried this with someone who has.
 
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Michele Ellington
United States
Texas
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One of the players in our group has a serious case of a p. in all games. He can be very frustrating to play with. First of all, he doesn't analyze his position until the start of his turn. Then, not only does he take the time to fully analyze every possible move he could take, plotting it out on the board, but then he looks at each player's position after him and analyzes what possible impact his play could have on them to determine whether they would be getting more out of his play than he will. At any given time he can tell you exactly how many points and resources every player has. This is the guy for whom chess clocks were invented. It's not a bad strategic approach to gaming, if, for example the actual fate of the human race is on the line. However it's a terrible social approach to gaming because it drives everyone in the gaming group crazy. what makes it worse is he genuinely doesn't realize how much time he takes by contrast everyone else. When we press him he always claims that he takes no more time than any other player. He just doesn't have a sense of his impact on the game. I've occasionally considered actually videoing a game and making him watch it to see what's actually going on, but I think that would be too hurtful to my old friend.
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Flavio Santos
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Krimsondelamber wrote:
One of the players in our group has a serious case of a p. in all games. He can be very frustrating to play with. First of all, he doesn't analyze his position until the start of his turn. Then, not only does he take the time to fully analyze every possible move he could take, plotting it out on the board, but then he looks at each player's position after him and analyzes what possible impact his play could have on them to determine whether they would be getting more out of his play than he will. At any given time he can tell you exactly how many points and resources every player has. This is the guy for whom chess clocks were invented. It's not a bad strategic approach to gaming, if, for example the actual fate of the human race is on the line. However it's a terrible social approach to gaming because it drives everyone in the gaming group crazy. what makes it worse is he genuinely doesn't realize how much time he takes by contrast everyone else. When we press him he always claims that he takes no more time than any other player. He just doesn't have a sense of his impact on the game. I've occasionally considered actually videoing a game and making him watch it to see what's actually going on, but I think that would be too hurtful to my old friend.


I would time everyone's turn. If only to show him that he takes way longer than everyone else.
 
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