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Massive Darkness» Forums » General

Subject: Character class for items rss

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Matt **
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First real playthrough.

Whisper found a sweet two handed axe. Elias was wearing plate mail. Seigfried was using a wand.

it all seemed a little off.

Does anyone feel the same?

I understand the reasoning for allowing characters to use whatever items they want (if not it'd be too cumbersome designing robes and leather that would give rogues/wizards viable armor etc.) but it felt less satisfying watching Whisper hack up the mobs with the axe that shoulda been mine! (I was seigfried and I wanted that axe!)
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Max Maloney
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"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason." -Jack Handey
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This is consistent with Zombicide, from which this game is derived. Anyone can use anything.

However, when people use items that match their class, they get more benefits. Shadowmoon Nightrunners gain bonuses while dual-wielding, Paladins of Fury get lots of special powers from defensive rolls, etc.

If people hoard items ideally suited to other characters, they will see lower party effectiveness overall.

Then sometimes you get three suits of platemail and everybody wears one!
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gary gee
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zombicide was an apocalyptic setting..using what you can get hold of!!..
this being a fantasy setting.i agree with OP,it would be a lot better having class specific items only.plus when chests are opened one random treasure drawn.so,no big build up of stuff.plus only usable by that class.would add a bit more fantasy "flavour"to the game.the treasure/item rule looks like it needs a rework..it looks like sloppy design IMHO
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Eric B
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While it would be great in theory, in reality it would make the game a lot more difficult and less fun. Imagine being a Wizard and constantly getting plate armor and 2 handed axes which you couldn't use at all. Or what about being a Paladin and getting tons of cloth armor, bows, and scepters? Even with the absurd amount of loot you get in the game, you often won't be using the ideal set up. There's been several games where I am forced to use something Less than optimal for an extended period because I haven't drawn anything better. One off games are fairly short and you could easily go through a mission never getting a usable upgrade if items had class restrictions on them.

Also keep in mind there are a limited number of cards per level. Giving classes treasure restrictions would mean they would have to vastly increase that number. For instance level 5 only has what, 4 armor treasures? If they were broke down into cloth, leather, chainmail, and plate that means there would only be one usable armor per class at level 5 if they were class specific. Either that or the developers would have needed to quadruple the number of items.
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Adam McCourt
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About the only thing designed well with MD is the sloppiness lol
 
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Matt **
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Eric,

you do realize I voiced the ideas you brought up in great detail in my post right?

I am aware that it would make the game more difficult on the players and less playable and require an entirely new mechanic.

But a wizard in platemail with a Blood Axe of Chaotic chopping feels bad
 
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Eric B
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All you said was you realized "it'd be too cumbersome designing robes and leather that would give rogues/wizards viable armor". I wouldn't say you really delved into much detail with that comment?

You made it sound like it would be hard for the designers to come up with separate armors for each classes type. I was pointing out that it wouldn't really be hard at all, it would just make the actual game less fun because of all the extra cards needed and unusable items you would draw. You would literally have treasure decks 3 or 4 times as big as they are now and would be spending most of the game getting unusable weapons and armor.

I get it's weird having a Wizard using plate, or an Assassin using a 2 handed axe, especially if you are used to the normal fantasy tropes. I am just saying in a light, fast playing dungeon crawler like Massive Darkness you need this kind of item system or else you would be getting mostly unusable gear.
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Tiff Reynolds
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deathleech wrote:
You made it sound like it would be hard for the designers to come up with separate armors for each classes type. I was pointing out that it wouldn't really be hard at all, it would just make the actual game less fun because of all the extra cards needed and unusable items you would draw. You would literally have treasure decks 3 or 4 times as big as they are now and would be spending most of the game getting unusable weapons and armor.


A possible solution to that (if CMON even saw it as a "problem") would be to have generic items in the loot decks named "Level 1 Common Armor", "Level 1 Rare Armor", etc. Then the players select the specific light/med/heavy armor for their class from a separate item card pile that is never shuffled or mixed in. Those cards would have custom / matching art and dice layouts - wizard robes would look like robes, and be more magic-inclined in the dice powers, for example.

Same thing for weapons, "Level 1 Common 2-hand", "Level 1 Rare 1-hand", etc. with dice distributions to match the weapon, but all similarly powered in a common group.

Maybe someone on BGG will come up with some custom cards to implement this? It could be interesting, and would maintain the fantasy standards.
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John Breckenridge
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What's weird is that they've designed an excellent system for restricting equipment on the monsters. It's just too bad that the same thing wouldn't work for the heroes.
 
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Eric B
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jbrecken wrote:
What's weird is that they've designed an excellent system for restricting equipment on the monsters. It's just too bad that the same thing wouldn't work for the heroes.


Randomly drawing a treasure card and if the monster doesn't have that as a stat, then the item is unusable? I wouldn't exactly say that is "an excellent system". Actually quite the contrary, it's really random and can create a huge discrepancy in difficult. Either an enemy is extremely easy or very difficult.

As for creating class specific armor, do you really want to play a game where you can't use most of the equipment you draw? I am sure Guillotine could have easily made armor and put cloth, leather, chainmail, and plate in their name. Then only allow Sorcerers and Wizards to use cloth, Assassins, Barbarian, and Nightrunners could use leather, Rangers could use chainmail, and Warrior Priest, Noble Warriors, and Paladins could use plate (random examples, don't get hung up on the distribution too much). Heck they could even remove chainmail and just have three types. The problem is right now there are only what, 5 pieces of armor or so per level? That's with each class able to use all of them. If they had class specific armor would either need to increase the armor per treasure level up to roughly 15-20 to accommodate each class OR risk players not having fun cause they couldn't use 75% of the armor they draw and would spend most the game just trying to find one usable piece of gear.

Just look at the current weapons and how they work. As a Ranger you are constantly trying to get a new bow or javelin to use at range. If you don't get one for awhile it can really hamper play or force you to use something you don't want to like melee or magic weapons. This isn't very fun and forces you to play a certain way you may otherwise not want to. How do you think having class specific armor would be any better? I love the idea of only being able to sequin certain armor as certain classes, but in actual games it just wouldn't be that fun.
 
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TImothee Beliveau-Lefebvre
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I think its perfectly fine the way it is. Traditional classes are getting old as well as childidh. I prefer that what define your character is what your character is carrying.
 
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