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Subject: [WIP] Brawlers - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Contest Ready rss

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Martijn van der Lee
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Re: [WIP] Brawlers - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Idea Phase
Initial try for the bottom sticker.

Not quite happy with the skin color and texture. The white feels a bit too bright as well. and I'll obviously have to update the credits above the title.
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Martijn van der Lee
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Re: [WIP] Brawlers - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Idea Phase
Giampiero Randazzo's excellent artwork coming together nicely in the tin.


I hoped to get the new components uploaded today, but still putting some tweaks on the inlay (trying to align the sides, adding in more of the artwork Giampiero provided, etc.).
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Martijn van der Lee
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Re: [WIP] Brawlers - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Idea Phase
First "official" component file release (as a JPG at 300DPI)

This features Giampiero Randazzo's artwork on the inlay.

I still need to do lots of work for the leaflet, some work on the inlay (in particular the middle section) and tweaks on the cover, bottom and the component file itself.

I might also do a low-ink version, if there is any interest in such. Added a small poll to gauge interrest:
Poll
I prefer this printable format
A4, color
A4, low-ink B&W
Letter, color
Letter, low-ink B&W
      4 answers
Poll created by Tynes


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Martijn van der Lee
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Re: [WIP] Brawlers - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Idea Phase
Improved version of the components, with initial version of the leaflet (with mostly just some faux history text and some useful examples) and textual instructions. Still all fits one A4 page.



p.s. Has anybody actually tried the gameplay yet? I didn't intend for this game to be taken too seriously, but the gameplay actually works surprisingly well and requires actual skill to win.

Finding half-inch cubes may be a bit difficult, but it's very important. Somewhat smaller or larger may work too, but make sure the cubes are large enough that they won't be able to stack.
 
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Brian Garthwaite
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Re: [WIP] Brawlers - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Idea Phase
Tynes wrote:
Finding half-inch cubes may be a bit difficult, but it's very important. Somewhat smaller or larger may work too, but make sure the cubes are large enough that they won't be able to stack.
Presumably 12mm dice would work, too. Working in some rules to incorporate dice values is probably overkill for the pseudo-toy this is supposed to be, but you could consider that as well.
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Martijn van der Lee
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Re: [WIP] Brawlers - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Idea Phase
My first prototypes actually involved 12mm dice. The size works (though larger is more controllable), but using the sides is essentially completely random. You have very little influence on how the dice end up after shaking. besides, it very quickly becomes cumbersome to work with dice dots. With 14mm dice, the tin becomes too small to allow them to spin sufficiently.

The current mechanic may seem random, but I found it far more predictable than dice sides. I.e. the way you place the cubes and how you shake the tin gives the players significant influence on the results. I find this counter intuitive myself, but it works nonetheless.

That's probably going to be the hardest part of this project; to convince people that there is actually a real game hidden in this simplistic mechanism. Admittedly, the theme I chose doesn't help 😉
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C. L.
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Re: [WIP] Brawlers - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Idea Phase
The theme is fun. Now that I know I can use 12 mm dice, I'll try it. I think all I really need for a prototype is a line drawn inside the tin.

Edit: OK, I already have my mock-up -- a piece of paper inside the tin with a line and a mark for polarity, 18 dice and a blue 1 cm cube. Will try on and off today. Meanwhile, I think the solo rules could be a tad clearer with respect to removing cubes. Both opponents' cubes need to be removed, correct?
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Martijn van der Lee
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Re: [WIP] Brawlers - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Idea Phase
Regarding the rules. The inside-lid rules are somewhat short due to space restrictions. I'm looking into making a larger and/or 2-sided version of the leaflet with more complete rules and some images.

In solo, there's only one turn and you still have to remove cubes from both sides. However, since the player has the obvious advantage, the "AI" loses one cube less whenever it loses two or more cubes. So if according to the 2-player rules it would lose 1 cube, it loses 1 cube, but if it would lose 2 cubes, it only loses 1 cube. If it would lose 3, remove only 2, etc.

In all honesty, the solo rules cannot ever be on par with the 2 player rules due to the nature of the game. Consider it a "practice mode". Solo will teach you how best to place cubes and "shake" the tin to get the results you want (remember, the only thing the rules really state regarding the physical movement, is that it has to be upside down at some point. You can randomly shake, use sharp jerks, spin or various other tricks to manipulate the cubes). As a single player this quickly becomes easy to manipulate. For two players, it requires a bit more planning.
 
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Predrag Stevanovic
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Re: [WIP] Brawlers - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Idea Phase
Hello,

I like the look of the game and its simplicity. It just feels very well rounded. And yet, one important part of the rules escapes me totally, so i have to ask:

After opening tin you...

a) ...use 2 middle lines to see who crossed.
- What is the use of cop cube in this case?

b) ...use black cube and draw 2 imaginary lines left and right of its sides. (example drawings suggest this)
- Why are there lines in the middle then?

Thanks,
Pedja
 
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Martijn van der Lee
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Re: [WIP] Brawlers - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Idea Phase
pecaZP wrote:
a) ...use 2 middle lines to see who crossed.
- What is the use of cop cube in this case?

b) ...use black cube and draw 2 imaginary lines left and right of its sides. (example drawings suggest this)
- Why are there lines in the middle then?
B is the right answer; draw imaginary lines wherever the black cube ends up. The lines in the middle of the inlay are used when placing the cubes inside the tin; you cannot place them beyond those lines.

I guess the lines used in the leaflet examples are ambiguous. I'll replace them with something clearer. I'll also add a diagram to show the use of lines in the inlay.
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Martijn van der Lee
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Re: [WIP] Brawlers - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Idea Phase
Added an extra page to leaflet to improve it and spread out the instructions over the page. Still all fits on one A4-sized page:


p.s. I did some quick tests with 12mm dice, and they seem to work just fine as is, so in the next version I will make clear that those are acceptable too.

p.p.s. The poll turned out equal A4/Letter preference so far, so I'll see what I can do for the Letter paper size. B&W should be a bit easier, but I want to finalize all the labels first.
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Martijn van der Lee
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Re: [WIP] Brawlers - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
Now in multiple PDF versions:
Color A4
Color Letter
Low-ink A4
Low-ink Letter

Could somebody please be so kind as to spellcheck the PDF. All PDF's share the same text, so only one version needs to be spellchecked. Note that I'm using "colour" instead of "color" on purpose.

Also wondering if anybody tried playing the game itself yet? Since the previous poll is no longer useful (since all versions are covered), I'm putting up this one:
Poll
1. Have you tried playing Brawlers yet?
Yes, with another player
Yes, by myself (solo)
No, but I will!
No, I won't (could you please tell me why?)
2. What version did you test?
With the color inlay
With the low-ink inlay
Without any inlay
      6 answers
Poll created by Tynes
 
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C. L.
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Re: [WIP] Brawlers - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
Hi Martin, I played solo and found what you posted above -- that one you get the knack it's very easy. I may be able to try it with a second player (a teenager -- lots of energy) this weekend.
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Brian Garthwaite
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Re: [WIP] Brawlers - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
Quick spellcheck suggestions:

Bottom:
"ages will be able do to enjoy"
"past the angry police man" - Should be policeman, single word.

Rules:
"3. First participant;: close the lid."
"5. Put the tin down on a table,; or and open the
lid. Both participants may look inside."
"6. Second participant;: close the lid."
"10. ... either participant has lost all their goons."
"However, whenever you are to remove more than one of your opponents’ goons, remove one less fewer."

Leaflet:
"Cut out and fold along the dotted lines."
"of popularity back when it was released, but quickly disappeared from the market owing largely to it’s its sudden rise in fame."
"was claimed to cause it’s its players to suffer"
"Few Little has been heard of their owners since."
"critics lauded it’s its minimal number of turns,"

I'll let you know if I spot any others.
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Martijn van der Lee
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Re: [WIP] Brawlers - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
bgarthwaite wrote:
Quick spellcheck suggestions:
"5. Put the tin down on a table,; or and open the
lid. Both participants may look inside."

Thank you for proofreading. Also thanks to GreenTea532, who provided proofreading in PM. You both caught a number of the same problems and a number of unique issues. The only part you both had a (slightly) different solution is in the point quoted above, which I ended up fixing by splitting into two sentences.

I've uploaded new versions of all the component files.
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Martijn van der Lee
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Re: [WIP] Brawlers - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
Printed the latest components (although still missing the typo fixes) and made some pretty pictures:

Tin opened

Tin closed

Raw components

Inlay inserted

Detail of the boats (look at how they align)

Detail of the houses (please don't look at how they align)

Bottom and cover

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Martijn van der Lee
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I'm calling it...
Contest Ready

Did some minor changes to the components and added tournament charts for playing with 8 players.
Not really necessary, but I thought it would be fun to add anyway.
A4 tournament chart
Letter tournament chart
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The stars aligned and I was finally able to get a two-person game in. We were at a busy coffeehouse, which I think is the real niche for this game, because it is rare to find a dexterity game that fits in a pocket and can be played in a cramped space.

I used my prototype, but we both had fun, so I'll print up a nice copy and keep it handy.

With respect to play, we did have a run-away leader problem. This may dissipate with more practice. We'll see...

Thanks!
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Martijn van der Lee
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GreenTea532 wrote:
The stars aligned and I was finally able to get a two-person game in. We were at a busy coffeehouse, which I think is the real niche for this game, because it is rare to find a dexterity game that fits in a pocket and can be played in a cramped space.
Glad you enjoyed it! Did you get any people staring at you for making weird hand motions?

GreenTea532 wrote:
With respect to play, we did have a run-away leader problem. This may dissipate with more practice. We'll see...
The game is supposed to rubberband; having less cubes on your side means the policeman is more likely to move in that direction, which means it's less likely the opponent's cubes can get past it. Perhaps if you take that little detail in account, it might even it out a bit. In my own tests, I rarely managed to get more than a 2 cube difference.
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Ian Fisher
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I love that the tin is apart of the game. This makes it an excellent travel buddy on trains, buses and planes
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Brian Garthwaite
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Sure looks sharp in the tin...



Haven't yet had a chance to play a proper game, but it's good fun rattling the tin about.
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The game looks really good and I love the inlay especially. Have you thought about making a playthrough video? I feel like to get a good idea of the play of the game you need to see it in action.

I noticed in your leaflet you call the bobby the cop, it's pretty obvious what it refers to but sometimes it's good to keep your terminology consistent.

Have you considered using different coloured cubes for "gang leaders?" Maybe with special rules etc.
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Martijn van der Lee
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AlexCannon wrote:
The game looks really good and I love the inlay especially. Have you thought about making a playthrough video? I feel like to get a good idea of the play of the game you need to see it in action.
I guess I could try to, but I haven't any experience with video production. Then again... these contests are for learning I'll see if I can work something up the next week, but no promises.

AlexCannon wrote:
I noticed in your leaflet you call the bobby the cop, it's pretty obvious what it refers to but sometimes it's good to keep your terminology consistent.
I'm aware of it. It's not ideal, but there is a reason to this madness: The leaflet and the inside-cover rules intentionally use different styles, the idea being that the rules use an older style whereas the leaflet is more modern, which I hope is reflected somewhat in word choice and general flow and typesetting.

AlexCannon wrote:
Have you considered using different coloured cubes for "gang leaders?" Maybe with special rules etc.
I have not. It's an interresting idea. Perhaps requiring players to protect their leader, though I don't feel this particular example would make much difference in actual gameplay. Perhaps some other mechanism could work. I wanted the theme to match the game as something as simple as possible, so I didn't really look into anything adding complexity. Though I did try adding more cops; does not work!

The general idea of shaking cubes in a tin can probably be adapted to plenty of different types of games. Although, for the love of god, please don't take the examples in the leaflet as suggestions .

I also tried experimenting with different sizes and shapes, but there are some big practical problems with getting people to playtest those as a PnP game. With some effort, I think a decent pool-building type game could be made... perhaps next year!
 
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Martijn van der Lee
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bgarthwaite wrote:
Sure looks sharp in the tin...



Haven't yet had a chance to play a proper game, but it's good fun rattling the tin about.
Love the look of the cubes. You used different types of wood?
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Brian Garthwaite
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All poplar. Some natural, some stained. Kept the surfaces a bit rough, because that seemed appropriate.
 
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