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Sovereign Of The Seas» Forums » General

Subject: Why is it so expensive? rss

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Michel D
Belgium
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This game looks gorgeous, but, why does it cost 110$???
There's no mounted maps, there are "only" (and it's not a bad thing) 600 counters...I really don't understand such a high price.
It's really something I'd like to play but...it's the price of 2 games with the same kind of material quality...
At least, for this price, the maps should have been mounted.
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Steve Pultorak
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Hudson
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Agreed
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stephen newberg
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I have been out of the physical production side of the game industry for so long I really cannot tell you, so you would need to talk to someone at Compass Games that actually works in the area of producing the games.

I can tell you that back forever ago when Simulations Canada did physical production the rule of thumb was that the retail price of a game should be set at about 5 times the physical production cost. If that is still the way things happen, we are looking at a production cost of what, $22? 6 counter sheets at $3 each eats a lot of that. There are 7 cardstock weight display sheets done full colour and printed both sides, so maybe half a dollar each for those is another $2.50 cost. 2 map sheets at about a buck each, so another $2.00. A full colour throughout rules booklet, so another couple of bucks there. Large size box also done full colour, say $1 or so. What are we up to? Over $25 so far. That would put suggested retail at $125.

There are ways to do things more cheaply, but the product suffers or the profit margin for the company does. In the long run, both of those are not good for the future of the company or for its customers.

That is just back of the envelope figuring, though. To actually get info, you might try the Compass Games folder over at ConSim World and ask. Ken and Bill, the owners, monitor the folder there and often answer on questions like this.

smn
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Chris Wood
United States
Leander
Texas
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I have to admit, I skipped picking up this game purely because of the price tag. I was really interested in everything else about the game. But there's enough great games out there that I can afford to wait and pick up a used copy second hand, even if it takes a while.
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Niek van Diepen
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Leto597 wrote:

There's no mounted maps, there are "only" (and it's not a bad thing) 600 counters...I really don't understand such a high price.


I've just edited the "community wiki" with actual measurements from my copy to replace the pre-publication estimates.

The counters in this game are oversized, and more than 600. You'll get 672 counters, 336 square counters at 16.5 mm (appr 5/8 inch), and 336 double-sized counters (16.5 x 33 mm, appr 5/8 x 1 9/32 inch). So that is the equivalent of 1008 square counters. "Standard" half inch counters are 280 to a sheet, so these counters would fit on four standard counter sheets with room to spare. Of course you'll get counters which are more easy to handle, but it is two more sheets.

The map is awkward. It is in two a-symmetrical halves, one 22 x 24 inch, the other 22 x 14.5 inch. Half an inch overlap make for a 22 x 38 inch combined map. It looks great once combined, but it should really have been formatted to fit on one standard 22 x 34 inch map. No alignment problems and cheaper. I'm sure it could be done. The extra two inches on both long sides are not part of the actual map but filled with port boxes.

Play aids are great. The backs of five of the letter sized cardboard cards are beautiful battle paintings (check the bottom right of the front of each card for what is depicted). Nice stock, will last a while.

Dice are a bit skimpy for a "roll a bucket of dice" combat type game, just 2. I'd recommend using at least 6 per side. Most wargamers will have some to spare, so that should be no problem.

The extra cost did not stop me buying the game, but standard counters would serve as well as these big ones, and I would have been more happy with just one map.
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Michel D
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Thanks for the review of the components.
I hope you'll write soon a review of the game play as well. I'd really like to know more about it.
 
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Kirk Allton
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Lewis Center
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I agree, the price is a real hindrance
 
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stephen newberg
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Yes, price has always been a problem on games that are very deep in components. Some producers seem to somewhat soften the difficulty by having the manufacturing done overseas, specifically in Asia, but from what I gather, Compass wants to keep things in the US.

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Kirk Allton
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I understand, I appreciate the effort in the design as it covers so many years and there are so many ships. I watched the out of the box video and the components look great. I will have to figure out how to explain it to the Mrs I think whistle
 
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stephen newberg
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A constant difficulty. If you ever figure out a system that works ever time, please let me know.

smn
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Michel D
Belgium
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It's not really that the price is high but more that for that price, we don't even get a mounted map.
And, I'm a bit worried that the game might be too light. Well, I'm a big fan of 1805 sea of glory. The problem is not really simplicity but, replayability. And, also if the gameplay and historicity is good enough. I wish for exemple that there would be some random events such as epidemy, storms or difficulties in recruitment of seamen for exemple.
It doesn't mean that the game is not good. I don't have it, so I can't say.
But that's the point. With a mounted map or a cheaper price, I'd take the risk to purchase it but with that high price...well, I'd be really mad if I spent so much money for a game that I'd play 2 or 3 times...
I'm waiting for some reviews, comments and evaluations. But, there's no evaluation yet and I think that probably many feel the way I do.
So, wait and see, but it's really a theme I'd like to play.

PS: Stephen, you got a point, it's a good thing that a company cares about to keep jobs in its own country. But MMP does it too and we get a lot of more for games that are around the same price.
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stephen newberg
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But you do not have a copy of the game and have not played it, so how do you know you get 'a lot more' from other games and publishers?

I find this sort of thing frustrating, as there really is not a lot that I can say. From a straight components viewpoint, as I pointed out in a post further up thread, a price higher than that actually listed as the retail is easily justified on normal business practice, from what I used to know about publishing. Maybe something has changed there, I do not know. And I am sure that there are discounters available that will allow the game to be purchased at considerably below the suggested retail.

On the game itself, this design was about 7 years or so in design, development, and play test. It has had hundreds of play tests. There are rules posted, so you could read through them, and I think it would settle some of your concerns about replay-ability and such. As the designer, its just sort of hard to answer this sort of posting. I would urge you to visit the publisher site and at least read the rules. They are not long, and perhaps that will help you.

smn
 
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Chris Wood
United States
Leander
Texas
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I did a quick google search of "compass games too expensive" and found this length thread on BGG - https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1782291/compass-games-worth...

I confess I did not read all 5-ish pages but a quick skim yields these points which others here might find helpful:
* On average, Compass seems to be well-received overall, with a lot of comments sharing positive feedback and buyers feeling that the prices were well-justified after purchase
* A few posters pointed out that GMT in particular is unusual for being cheap, and if you do a broader comparison involving multiple publishers, Compass turns out to be average
* Compass games can sometimes be had at a discount over their direct prices by going through a distributor like NWS
* Compass offers a 30% discount over their stated direct prices if you order via their catalog or use a coupon code
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Mike Hoyt

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What's the code? I can never remember
 
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Michael Sosa
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Compass produces quality historical games and they often have sales. I just opened my new copy of South China Sea and Sovereign of the Seas has a holiday price of $66. I'd like to see a review of the game before I purchase though...
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Stephen Harper
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National City
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blockhead wrote:
What's the code? I can never remember


The discount code is catalog30, and is basically good for all published games ordered online or via mail from the catalog. And the holiday sales price of $66 (40% discount) is good until 15th January.
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Gene Dickens
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There is a lot of stuff in this game. 1 Rules book (the rules are well done), 7 player aide and control cards, 1 1/2 maps, and six! sheets of counters. There are more than 600 counters in the game if you count all the non-ship markers.

Then there is the Art. As a trained artist, I can tell you the artwork in this game is exceptional. (10 out of 10) Have you checked the backside of the one-sided player cards? There are battle scenes of famous actions on the back. Unheard of!! And the artwork on the ships themselves is outstanding. Figure that each sheet of counters and artwork at this level of skill and design could cost as much as $1,500 PER PAGE, to pay the artist for his work. Heck, the map may have cost as much $4,000 for a map of this quality. And, all have a nice period feel to them.

No, I think the price is right all factors considered. And, now that there is a sales price of just $66.00, I don't think you could go wrong by purchasing this game, and putting your ship next to the enemy's. I believe you're in for some great gaming.

Keep up the good work Compass Games. And, I'm looking forward the many of your new releases. Just let me get moved first.

Take care,

Gene (Kadesh) Dickens
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Frank Burgo
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NWS-ONLINE.NET is selling it for $65.00 Look for it under Board Games, Ready to ship section
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