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Subject: What are your thoughts on events? rss

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Chris Wood
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I have started to dislike their randomness. I like the puzzle aspect of the turn, and I feel it starts to lose that with the unpredictability. I'm beginning to think I should leave out thw expansion all together, since the events are basically needed to play it. What are your thoughts?
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Brian Busha
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I like the expansion overall, but I do think Events are maybe the weakest part.

I think that it's not a terrible thing as it does allow some more fist pumping moments/groans, but I kind of agree with you, the elegance of the base game is pretty tight.

I wish there were a way to remove just events as I like the extra tokens/spirits/cards, but I'm worried it will throw the balance off too much (animals become a lot more situational, disease is harder to maintain, etc etc.)

That said, I have played with it about 15 or so games and I'm not taking it out anytime soon, just wish there were a better alternative.
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Chris Wood
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Gutrix wrote:
I like the expansion overall, but I do think Events are maybe the weakest part.

I think that it's not a terrible thing as it does allow some more fist pumping moments/groans, but I kind of agree with you, the elegance of the base game is pretty tight.

I wish there were a way to remove just events as I like the extra tokens/spirits/cards, but I'm worried it will throw the balance off too much (animals become a lot more situational, disease is harder to maintain, etc etc.)

That said, I have played with it about 15 or so games and I'm not taking it out anytime soon, just wish there were a better alternative.


The only thing I can think of to reduce the effects of the event is to reveal the event at the beginning of the spirit phase. Then resolve it during the usual time in The Invader phase. That way you know what's coming and can plan for some of it. I don't think it would reduce the theme...being spirits they should be able to communicate with the land and dahan and have a little bit of premonition. Also the beast spirit will be a bit more manageable. I felt that it was pretty dependant on events..where as with thunderspeaker you knew what the dahan could do. Beasts are random, and more often than not they would attack on a turn I didn't need them to. Or they wouldn't attack on a turn I wanted them to.
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Ted Vessenes
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Myoman wrote:
I have started to dislike their randomness. I like the puzzle aspect of the turn, and I feel it starts to lose that with the unpredictability. I'm beginning to think I should leave out thw expansion all together, since the events are basically needed to play it. What are your thoughts?


I think events are really important when you've played the game a lot, but shouldn't be used before being really experienced. The whole point of events is to remove predictability once the invader's actions become *too* predictable. If you feel like the invaders aren't too predictable yet, don't play with events.
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Chris Wood
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tedv wrote:
Myoman wrote:
I have started to dislike their randomness. I like the puzzle aspect of the turn, and I feel it starts to lose that with the unpredictability. I'm beginning to think I should leave out thw expansion all together, since the events are basically needed to play it. What are your thoughts?


I think events are really important when you've played the game a lot, but shouldn't be used before being really experienced. The whole point of events is to remove predictability once the invader's actions become *too* predictable. If you feel like the invaders aren't too predictable yet, don't play with events.


Ah so you are saying the expansion should be used mainly for advanced play...correct?
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M M

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The FAQ says you can, if you want, use everything except the event cards:

"And finally, "Everything except the Event Cards": If you omit the starting Disease from each board, and don't use the "Aid from Lesser Spirits" / "Back Against the Wall" Blight cards, my educated guess is that using everything but the Event Cards wouldn't mess with game difficulty too much - Beast tokens will be much worse (mild difficulty boost), and the Blight Card changes will make things slightly easier. (You could also use Event Cards for token Events only, in which case you're probably making your game easier by 1 or 2 Difficulty?) It's totally untested that way, but if you want to give it a shot, please go for it - and if you have a chance, post to BGG or the >G forums to let me know how it went."

It messes with game difficulty a bit, but it sounds like it shouldn't be game-breaking. So you can play that way until you feel you're advanced enough that you can enjoy the event cards.
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Tom Chick
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Myoman wrote:
I have started to dislike their randomness. I like the puzzle aspect of the turn, and I feel it starts to lose that with the unpredictability. I'm beginning to think I should leave out thw expansion all together, since the events are basically needed to play it. What are your thoughts?


I had the same reservations, Chris, but after a few dozen games, I'm attached to the way the game is more "alive" with events and tokens. I consider the base game a great way to learn a particular god's mechanics. But to really flex those mechanics, you want to see how it fares in the full game.

In other words, the more deterministic base game is practice. The uncertainty of events is the real thing!

-Tom
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Anthony Rubbo
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I'm typically one to say throw all expansion stuff in right from the start, regardless of how complex it makes the game, but this game was an exception. You should play the base game until you're specifically wanting the new elements.

After a couple games I said to myself "This is too predictable", "I want different types of stuff on the board" and "I want it to be harder to win", and the Events, Tokens, and Adversaries all naturally solved those.

I haven't gotten to the point where I want different / unbalancing rules yet, so I haven't added Scenarios, and I haven't gotten to the point where I want a different type of map yet, so I haven't flipped the board to the back side.

Until you're wanting any of the above things, probably stay with base game.
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CARL SKUTSCH
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I'd only played about 10 games when I started to use events and I really like them. I think a lot depends on how you personally feel on upping the random factor. I do think the idea of revealing the event at the start of the turn is interesting, I may try that solitaire. (Multi-player I feel it would increase AP too much.)
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RyuSora
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I added all the content from the expansion that does not interact with new tokens and the events, so basically i just added from the expansion a bunch of cards to the base game! I am having a blast, the game still feel well balanced.

I just have around 10 games of spirit island, when i hit around 40 games i will definitely check the expansion content better and i will probably add all in, and then i will be able to talk about events. This game is very complex and the replayability value is just CRAZY HIGH right now as it is.
 
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Andrés Santiago Pérez-Bergquist
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tedv wrote:
Myoman wrote:
I have started to dislike their randomness. I like the puzzle aspect of the turn, and I feel it starts to lose that with the unpredictability. I'm beginning to think I should leave out thw expansion all together, since the events are basically needed to play it. What are your thoughts?


I think events are really important when you've played the game a lot, but shouldn't be used before being really experienced. The whole point of events is to remove predictability once the invader's actions become *too* predictable. If you feel like the invaders aren't too predictable yet, don't play with events.


Yup, and I found that when we added events, it actually sped up the gameplay, because the added unpredictability made it impossible to plan out the perfect use of powers, so we settled for good enough. I can't imagine playing without them now.
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Max Maloney
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I can understand not liking the events at first, but I'll echo that the game becomes a little too predictable without them. I mean that in the sense that it becomes too easy.

I will play without them when teaching a new player, but with experienced players I think they add a necessary challenge.
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Dylan Thurston
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Santiago wrote:
Yup, and I found that when we added events, it actually sped up the gameplay, because the added unpredictability made it impossible to plan out the perfect use of powers, so we settled for good enough. I can't imagine playing without them now.
The added speed/reduced planning was actually one big motivation for adding events.
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Rock Bronson

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dthurston wrote:
Santiago wrote:
Yup, and I found that when we added events, it actually sped up the gameplay, because the added unpredictability made it impossible to plan out the perfect use of powers, so we settled for good enough. I can't imagine playing without them now.
The added speed/reduced planning was actually one big motivation for adding events.


That's very interesting- Two of my players are very AP prone- I might try sprinkling in events more often in our games. I agree that how well people will like the randomness of event effects will correlate to their comfortability with chance in general, but sometimes a bit of randomness can shift focus in a positive way, giving a more general, larger scope.

I finally got a chance to play Dune: The Dice Game last night and those two players gained a lot from the experience, I think. Narrowing the range of controllable factors can aided player skill progression and shifted perspective in a positive way even for folks who are generally comfortable with more complete knowledge. (at least at our table)
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Dillon Flaherty
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Spirit Island has a pretty wonderful and fun learning curve. Early on it felt like pulling out a win was just barely scraping by. After about 10 plays, the grasp of the game and overall flow and pace meant that wins were becoming much more easily and predictably.

Sure, difficulty from invaders could (and does) mix this up, but I found events (along with a lot more fear and minor/major powers) to bump up the Replayability factor exponentially. I could not stop playing and re-playing the game once I added the events in.

Very highly recommended expansion!
 
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Marco Teti
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c4dillon wrote:
Spirit Island has a pretty wonderful and fun learning curve. Early on it felt like pulling out a win was just barely scraping by. After about 10 plays, the grasp of the game and overall flow and pace meant that wins were becoming much more easily and predictably.

Sure, difficulty from invaders could (and does) mix this up, but I found events (along with a lot more fear and minor/major powers) to bump up the Replayability factor exponentially. I could not stop playing and re-playing the game once I added the events in.

Very highly recommended expansion!


I agree. Once you get the flow of the game, the invaders in how they explore and build/ravage become fairly predictable. Although I have not yet put the event cards in, Should I add at least the Major/Minor power cards in as well as the other tokens? Right now unless I take away some of the insert there's no way to get everything in one box, unless I order the expensive inserts that are out now.

I certainly like the puzzle aspect and planning how to deal with what's to come yet randomness brings out more intense gameplay IMO.
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Dillon Flaherty
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SgtTenor wrote:
c4dillon wrote:
Spirit Island has a pretty wonderful and fun learning curve. Early on it felt like pulling out a win was just barely scraping by. After about 10 plays, the grasp of the game and overall flow and pace meant that wins were becoming much more easily and predictably.

Sure, difficulty from invaders could (and does) mix this up, but I found events (along with a lot more fear and minor/major powers) to bump up the Replayability factor exponentially. I could not stop playing and re-playing the game once I added the events in.

Very highly recommended expansion!


I agree. Once you get the flow of the game, the invaders in how they explore and build/ravage become fairly predictable. Although I have not yet put the event cards in, Should I add at least the Major/Minor power cards in as well as the other tokens? Right now unless I take away some of the insert there's no way to get everything in one box, unless I order the expensive inserts that are out now.

I certainly like the puzzle aspect and planning how to deal with what's to come yet randomness brings out more intense gameplay IMO.


There's a FAQ about that actually, but I would hold off on adding the Major/Minor powers in since so many of them involve the new tokens - and most of them rely (beasts the most) on the event card activations!

As much as I liked the insert, I ended up letting it go to fit the expansion stuff in. Instead of expensive, I just went the route of a small plano box for all the tokens to play right out of there!

If you like the randomness, You'll love it with the events!! As long as you've had 3-5 games of the base version I would recommend taking the plunge!
 
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Marco Teti
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c4dillon wrote:
SgtTenor wrote:
c4dillon wrote:
Spirit Island has a pretty wonderful and fun learning curve. Early on it felt like pulling out a win was just barely scraping by. After about 10 plays, the grasp of the game and overall flow and pace meant that wins were becoming much more easily and predictably.

Sure, difficulty from invaders could (and does) mix this up, but I found events (along with a lot more fear and minor/major powers) to bump up the Replayability factor exponentially. I could not stop playing and re-playing the game once I added the events in.

Very highly recommended expansion!


I agree. Once you get the flow of the game, the invaders in how they explore and build/ravage become fairly predictable. Although I have not yet put the event cards in, Should I add at least the Major/Minor power cards in as well as the other tokens? Right now unless I take away some of the insert there's no way to get everything in one box, unless I order the expensive inserts that are out now.

I certainly like the puzzle aspect and planning how to deal with what's to come yet randomness brings out more intense gameplay IMO.


There's a FAQ about that actually, but I would hold off on adding the Major/Minor powers in since so many of them involve the new tokens - and most of them rely (beasts the most) on the event card activations!

As much as I liked the insert, I ended up letting it go to fit the expansion stuff in. Instead of expensive, I just went the route of a small plano box for all the tokens to play right out of there!

If you like the randomness, You'll love it with the events!! As long as you've had 3-5 games of the base version I would recommend taking the plunge!


Will do. That is to say when I get some time. I'm mostly a seasonal worker and season is just about to start so game-time may be limited but I will make the time. At least I hope.
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Daniel Nedeljkovic
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Myoman wrote:
Gutrix wrote:
I like the expansion overall, but I do think Events are maybe the weakest part.

I think that it's not a terrible thing as it does allow some more fist pumping moments/groans, but I kind of agree with you, the elegance of the base game is pretty tight.

I wish there were a way to remove just events as I like the extra tokens/spirits/cards, but I'm worried it will throw the balance off too much (animals become a lot more situational, disease is harder to maintain, etc etc.)

That said, I have played with it about 15 or so games and I'm not taking it out anytime soon, just wish there were a better alternative.


The only thing I can think of to reduce the effects of the event is to reveal the event at the beginning of the spirit phase. Then resolve it during the usual time in The Invader phase. That way you know what's coming and can plan for some of it. I don't think it would reduce the theme...being spirits they should be able to communicate with the land and dahan and have a little bit of premonition. Also the beast spirit will be a bit more manageable. I felt that it was pretty dependant on events..where as with thunderspeaker you knew what the dahan could do. Beasts are random, and more often than not they would attack on a turn I didn't need them to. Or they wouldn't attack on a turn I wanted them to.


I was also thinking about this - having the events be revealed. Would this mess with the balance of the game or make it too easy?
 
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Dylan Thurston
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Floating World wrote:
Myoman wrote:
The only thing I can think of to reduce the effects of the event is to reveal the event at the beginning of the spirit phase. ....


I was also thinking about this - having the events be revealed. Would this mess with the balance of the game or make it too easy?
It would make the game much, much easier. Bringer of Dreams and Nightmares has the ability to reveal Fear cards; this is pretty powerful, even though the impact is lower.
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dthurston wrote:
Floating World wrote:
Myoman wrote:
The only thing I can think of to reduce the effects of the event is to reveal the event at the beginning of the spirit phase. ....


I was also thinking about this - having the events be revealed. Would this mess with the balance of the game or make it too easy?
It would make the game much, much easier. Bringer of Dreams and Nightmares has the ability to reveal Fear cards; this is pretty powerful, even though the impact is lower.


I'm hesitant on getting the expansion then - I like to have control in my games and base Spirit Island is phenomenal in this regard. Events seem to reduce player control by a significant amount.
 
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Bob Boberson
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Floating World wrote:
dthurston wrote:
Floating World wrote:
Myoman wrote:
The only thing I can think of to reduce the effects of the event is to reveal the event at the beginning of the spirit phase. ....


I was also thinking about this - having the events be revealed. Would this mess with the balance of the game or make it too easy?
It would make the game much, much easier. Bringer of Dreams and Nightmares has the ability to reveal Fear cards; this is pretty powerful, even though the impact is lower.


I'm hesitant on getting the expansion then - I like to have control in my games and base Spirit Island is phenomenal in this regard. Events seem to reduce player control by a significant amount.


This is by design. Having this increased variability makes it more difficult to plan. The base game is all open information with the exception of the fear cards you may earn and where the explorers will go next. Events represent an additional challenge, so only sign up if that's what you're looking for.
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Michael Pureka

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Floating World wrote:
I'm hesitant on getting the expansion then - I like to have control in my games and base Spirit Island is phenomenal in this regard. Events seem to reduce player control by a significant amount.


I feel you; I find events to be frustrating. Fortunately, there are ways to play with most of the rest of the expansion content (the spirits and powers are Very Cool) without having to use them.

Basically, skip the starting disease token, don't use events, use a base game blight card, and anytime you add a beast to a land with invaders, also add two fear. It's not perfect, but it's way more balanced that using events with a modification like "draw your event at the start of the spirit phase".
 
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Dylan Thurston
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PerceptiveMan wrote:
Floating World wrote:
I'm hesitant on getting the expansion then - I like to have control in my games and base Spirit Island is phenomenal in this regard. Events seem to reduce player control by a significant amount.


I feel you; I find events to be frustrating. Fortunately, there are ways to play with most of the rest of the expansion content (the spirits and powers are Very Cool) without having to use them.

Basically, skip the starting disease token, don't use events, use a base game blight card, and anytime you add a beast to a land with invaders, also add two fear. It's not perfect, but it's way more balanced that using events with a modification like "draw your event at the start of the spirit phase".
There's a FAQ entry on this:
What happens if you just add some of the Branch & Claw expansion cards / elements to the game? Do you think you could play with everything from the expansion but the Event Cards?
The suggestion with the extra Fear is probably good, although my gut instinct is that 2 Fear is too much.
 
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Michael Pureka

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dthurston wrote:

The suggestion with the extra Fear is probably good, although my gut instinct is that 2 Fear is too much.


I feel like this discussion has happened here multiple times. It's only when adding a beast to a land with invaders, so I don't think it's really a problem.
 
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