Recommend
6 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Kingmaker» Forums » Rules

Subject: I'm with Stupid. Where he goes, I go. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Kevin Smith
msg tools
We had a situation in last night's game where we would like some help.

Two nobles of the same faction are stacked in an announced Force. Richard, Duke of York is with the Force.

In order to respond to a Peasant Revolt (or some other Event Card) Noble A is directed to a different location.

Question 1: Is Noble A permitted to take Richard of York with him? (I think yes).

Question 2: Is Noble B permitted to move with Noble A, and thereby keep the force intact,even though he is not required to move by the Event Card. Would appreciate a rules citation if possible.

Thank you for your help on this.

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
andrew
Australia
bayswater
western australia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
good question.
I also await an answer..

I suspect they can..
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wendell
United States
Yellow Springs
Ohio
flag msg tools
Si non potes reperire Berolini in tabula, ludens essetis non WIF.
badge
Hey, get your stinking cursor off my face! I got nukes, you know.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, Noble A can take Richard.

No, Noble B can't go, too, if not named on the event card. Sucks to be Noble B.

Rules cite is the complete absence of anything saying nobles not named on event cards forcing somebody to move can ALSO move. (Note the Commission optional rule would let Noble B go INSTEAD of Noble A, but not WITH him.)

Are the Kingmaker rules badly showing their age and full of loopholes and places where you have to make inferences? Yes, yes they are.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Dawn
United States
Monroe
Michigan
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hmmmmm ... I would have ruled Noble A cannot go with Richard. Is there something in the rules that brought you to conclude Noble A gets to go with Richard, Wendell?

I'll certainly agree some rule tightening is in order!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brett Christensen
United States
Fargo
North Dakota
flag msg tools
designer
Pat OwlOrbs on the head.
badge
Rub the wizard!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
From page 5 of the Ariel rules (underlining mine):

Once captured the Royal Piece must always be accompanied by at least one Noble Piece. A Royal Piece can be moved together with any Noble Piece belonging to the Player but must not be left alone.

And from page 14 regarding Raids and Revolts:

Only the Nobles named may move in response, but they may take Royal Pieces with them.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wendell
United States
Yellow Springs
Ohio
flag msg tools
Si non potes reperire Berolini in tabula, ludens essetis non WIF.
badge
Hey, get your stinking cursor off my face! I got nukes, you know.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kingmaker fan wrote:
Hmmmmm ... I would have ruled Noble A cannot go with Richard. Is there something in the rules that brought you to conclude Noble A gets to go with Richard, Wendell?

I'll certainly agree some rule tightening is in order!


Noble A was called away (not Richard). If you look on pg 7 under "Raid and Revolt", it says "Any Royal heir counter(s) with the summoned noble may accompany him."

Edit - didn't see Brett's post but we agree! (I'm quoting from the Avalon Hill version.)
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ross Menzies
Australia
Katoomba
NSW
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Commission allows any number of nobles of the same faction to be substituted for the called guy so long as the total strength sent equals or exceeds that of the called. Some may find it controversial but we reasoned that there was no reason the called noble couldn't be one of those substituting for, umm, the called noble. Ergo, so long as you have Writ 1 and roll for everyone who goes then everyone can go.

We did have a home rule that said that the substitutes had to be stacked together but there's nothing in the rules which specifies that.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Burkley
United States
Hillsborough
New Jersey
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I haven't played in quite a spell, but this brings back fond memories.

In the original ARIEL rules, a noble forced to respond to an event had the option to take a "royal piece" (ie: heir) with him. The Avalon Hill rules also allow this.

If the royal piece is the sole King, then things get interesting.

If an Embassy card calls the sole King, any number of the controlling faction's nobles that are with the sole King may accompany him to the Embassy site. Both the ARIEL and Avalon Hill rules state this.

For the question posed, our circle interpreted the rules to allow a noble responding to a Peasant Revolt (or similar event) to take a Royal Heir with him. If that Royal Heir was the sole King, then the other nobles with the King could "escort" the King (as per an Embassy card) - resulting in the whole stack moving to the site of the Peasant Revolt. (If other nobles in the stack were summoned elsewhere in the same instance, all named nobles had to respond, but the player could still choose one site to move the King with the responding noble, and then the remaining entourage could move with the King.)

We never played in any tournaments, but at least we all agreed to this interpretation, right or wrong.

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Dawn
United States
Monroe
Michigan
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
wifwendell wrote:
kingmaker fan wrote:
Hmmmmm ... I would have ruled Noble A cannot go with Richard. Is there something in the rules that brought you to conclude Noble A gets to go with Richard, Wendell?

I'll certainly agree some rule tightening is in order!


Noble A was called away (not Richard). If you look on pg 7 under "Raid and Revolt", it says "Any Royal heir counter(s) with the summoned noble may accompany him."

Edit - didn't see Brett's post but we agree! (I'm quoting from the Avalon Hill version.)


Yikes! I was away at a hotel that blocked BGG and couldn't respond until now! I wholeheartedly concur, somehow in my mind I was equating Richard with the OFFICE card that gives control of York ... boy I must have been really tired! So yes, Richard can go with Noble A. Sorry for the confusion.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Dawn
United States
Monroe
Michigan
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ramilles wrote:
I haven't played in quite a spell, but this brings back fond memories.

In the original ARIEL rules, a noble forced to respond to an event had the option to take a "royal piece" (ie: heir) with him. The Avalon Hill rules also allow this.

If the royal piece is the sole King, then things get interesting.

If an Embassy card calls the sole King, any number of the controlling faction's nobles that are with the sole King may accompany him to the Embassy site. Both the ARIEL and Avalon Hill rules state this.

For the question posed, our circle interpreted the rules to allow a noble responding to a Peasant Revolt (or similar event) to take a Royal Heir with him. If that Royal Heir was the sole King, then the other nobles with the King could "escort" the King (as per an Embassy card) - resulting in the whole stack moving to the site of the Peasant Revolt. (If other nobles in the stack were summoned elsewhere in the same instance, all named nobles had to respond, but the player could still choose one site to move the King with the responding noble, and then the remaining entourage could move with the King.)

We never played in any tournaments, but at least we all agreed to this interpretation, right or wrong.



We've never allowed that but I see the reasoning. I'm thinking this will extend games even more as revolts either pulling away some nobles or pulling the heir/king away with a single noble (if the force not responding is either insufficiently strong or in a bad location) is one of the ways to get out of a stalemate.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Terry Gray
msg tools
mb
Hey Folks,

It's been about a decade since I had my copy off the shelf, and I don't have my rules handy to provide references, but I'm pretty sure this is a straightforward situation.

1) If an Event Card summons a Noble, either by Name, Title, Office, or Bishopric, that Noble must respond by going to (one of) the listed place(s). If the summoned Noble is part of a stack which contains a controlled Heir, whether crowned King or not, the Heir may go with the Noble. If more than one Noble in the stack is required to respond to the same Event, the player chooses which, if any, the Heir will go with.

2) If the Commission rule is being used (IIRC, this is optional), the player MAY send an alternate Noble (or Nobles) in placed of the one named, provided the replacement(s) have military strength equal to or greater than the named Noble. Again, a controlled Heir may be sent with the responding Noble(s).

In both of the above cases, I envision this as the Heir not being given any choice in the matter. Being crowned King does not change the fact that the individual Heir is completely under control of the faction.

3) An Embassy Card specifically calls for the KING/QUEEN to respond by going to the place named on the card. In this case the rules state that the King/Queen MAY be accompanied by any Nobles they are currently stacked with.

The KING/QUEEN is going to meet some foreign dignitaries and the controlling Faction is sending along an "entourage" to ensure appearances are kept up (and to keep them in line).

We played this game a LOT when I was at University, and between a couple of different groups of players, wore out multiple copies of the AH 1st Edition, usually with hand-made cards for the first expansion. My current copy is an AH 2nd Edition with all the expansions. At one time I owned a copy of the Ariel Edition.

I recently learned that I guy I work with from time to time has played Kingmaker and likes it. Perhaps it's time to blow some dust off the box and wrangle some royals again.

Cheers
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.