Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
OHG's Drowning ability reads:

"At any time you may exchange (X) Health of these Invaders for 1 Energy where X = number of players".

The FAQ says:

"For every X health worth of invaders, Ocean gains 1 energy, where X is the number of players. For instance, in a 4-player game, Ocean can trade 1 Town and 2 Explorers for 1 energy."

Not quite the same...as written, it sounds like you can cannot get more than 1 energy from any instance of trading in invaders, while the FAQ entry makes it sounds like you can.

For example, in a 2 player game, can OHG trade in 1 City + 1 Explorer for 2 energy? Or could they just trade the city for 1 energy and cannot combine the "extra" health with another unit?

Or, for a more direct example, in a 1 player game does OHG get 2 energy for a town and 3 for a city, or just 1 for every invader, no matter what kind of invader it is?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
You can gain more than 1 energy since you can do it any time afaik. i.e. in a 2 player game if you turn in 10 health of enemies you get 5 energy.
4 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ted Vessenes
United States
Somerville
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
You can even make change. In a two player game, you can turn in a city for 1 energy and an explorer.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dillon Flaherty
United States
Severna Park
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tedv wrote:
You can even make change. In a two player game, you can turn in a city for 1 energy and an explorer.


I had no idea you could do this, great point!!

Edit: It looks like it isn't strictly legal! Bummer!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tedv wrote:
You can even make change. In a two player game, you can turn in a city for 1 energy and an explorer.


Say what!?!

OK, I don't get that from the power as written at all; where are you getting that from?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dylan Thurston
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
StormKnight wrote:
tedv wrote:
You can even make change. In a two player game, you can turn in a city for 1 energy and an explorer.
Say what!?!

OK, I don't get that from the power as written at all; where are you getting that from?
Ted is the developer of the game, he can make rulings. I agree that this isn't clear from the printed wording.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dthurston wrote:
StormKnight wrote:
tedv wrote:
You can even make change. In a two player game, you can turn in a city for 1 energy and an explorer.
Say what!?!

OK, I don't get that from the power as written at all; where are you getting that from?
Ted is the developer of the game, he can make rulings. I agree that this isn't clear from the printed wording.


More confused...the designer listed on the box is R. Eric Reuss, and I didn't see Spirit Island listed on Ted's designer page...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Zev
msg tools
badge
All knowledge is worth having
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
StormKnight wrote:
dthurston wrote:
StormKnight wrote:
tedv wrote:
You can even make change. In a two player game, you can turn in a city for 1 energy and an explorer.
Say what!?!

OK, I don't get that from the power as written at all; where are you getting that from?
Ted is the developer of the game, he can make rulings. I agree that this isn't clear from the printed wording.


More confused...the designer listed on the box is R. Eric Reuss, and I didn't see Spirit Island listed on Ted's designer page...
Developer, not Designer.

I think the intent is once an invader is drowned it is immediately converted into energy. But we don't have "1/3 of an energy" tokens, so we represent the fractional energy with invaders. Thus the ability to make change.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ted Vessenes
United States
Somerville
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm listed in the rulebook credits. I tend to shy away from making any official rulings, leaving that up to Eric and GTG. Also, being a developer is very different from being a designer. I'm definitely not the (or a) game designer for Spirit Island.

For Oceans, I can formally say that we tested it with the ability to make change. Thematically it's not unreasonable to think that a town contains about twice as many "souls" as an explorer, and a city about three times. It's the people that give Oceans energy.

Mechanically the spirit is pretty complex, so the more we could make the spirits actual mechanics line up with player expectations, the better smoother it would play (which helps reclaim some of the complexity budget). The wording doesn't explicitly allow or disallow making change, there's no mention of it in the rulebook either way because formally stating one more rule to remember seemed bad. I just figured people would play whichever version made more intuitive sense to them, and it would be roughly fair no matter how they wanted to play it.

Incidentally, this was the reason for the post PnP change to Oceans where you could drown invaders in the ocean for any board where Oceans has presence, not just if Oceans has presence in that specific ocean space. We thought it was too much hassle to force the other players in the game to remember that sometimes their push actions could drown things and sometimes they couldn't, largely influenced by whether Ocean decides to abandon an ocean space during a high tide growth option. That level of paying attention to other players was just too much to impose on the game as a whole, so we went with "you can probably just drown things if oceans is nearby" instead.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
R. Eric Reuss
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
Formally, no, you cannot make change. The rule is explicit about what you may do: turn in some Invaders, and gain some Energy. So strictly, turning in a City in a 2p game gets you 1 Energy, and the remainder is wasted.

That being said, it's such an edge-case (Ocean usually isn't wanting for Explorers) that I agree with Ted's summary of:
tedv wrote:
I just figured people would play whichever version made more intuitive sense to them, and it would be roughly fair no matter how they wanted to play it.


(EDIT: Also, yes, Ted did heavy development work on the game, and can generally be assumed to be correct on just about anything. If I notice a situation where he's not, I'll chime in, but those are apt to be rare.)
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for clarifying Eric.

So I think the correct answer here is:

You CAN trade in multiples at once for multiple energy. IE, you can do 2X health of invaders for 2 energy.

You CANNOT "make change" for later.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Seth Hopwood
United States
Madison
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mb
StormKnight wrote:
Thanks for clarifying Eric.

So I think the correct answer here is:

You CAN trade in multiples at once for multiple energy. IE, you can do 2X health of invaders for 2 energy.

You CANNOT "make change" for later.


That's not really how I read it - the rules don't explicitly say you can, but common sense says you can.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Zev
msg tools
badge
All knowledge is worth having
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
glennfrogknight wrote:


That's not really how I read it - the rules don't explicitly say you can, but common sense says you can.

Eric is the game designer and has the final word on official rule interpretations. But if you want to house-rule it however you want, go ahead. This particular effect is minor enough to not really effect balance either way, and the game is cooperative after all.

In fact, I personally do play with the house rule on this one, because it meshes better with how I interpret the flavor. But it is still a house rule.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Anon Y. Mous
msg tools
mbmb
glennfrogknight wrote:
StormKnight wrote:
Thanks for clarifying Eric.

So I think the correct answer here is:

You CAN trade in multiples at once for multiple energy. IE, you can do 2X health of invaders for 2 energy.

You CANNOT "make change" for later.


That's not really how I read it - the rules don't explicitly say you can, but common sense says you can.


Abilities only do what they say they do, no more and no less. That's how game rules work, otherwise you'd have chaos.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.