Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
14 Posts

Illusions of Glory» Forums » Rules

Subject: Some questions after first session rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Apan Arne
msg tools
1. Reading the errata -

The RU, GE, or AH National Will marker moves –2 on the General
Records Track when its Nation loses control of a home VP
space, and moves +2 when units of its Nation retake control of a
home VP space.


So if Russians have captured a couple of AH spaces and GE takes them back... does AH or GE National Will go up?

2. Regarding the LCU/SCU loss rules, it is virtually irrelevant to have SCUs in your reserve box. I was playing Germany and AH was beaten severely but rather than build corps to avoid perma dead LCUs like in PoG, I just spammed reduced AH LCUs for all RP's which are cheap and gives good firepower with no fear of them being perma eliminated. This cant be intentional?

3. Again, regarding loss rules. If I have two GE LCU's and (4-3-4 for example) and one is flipped, the other isnt. If I recieve a 4 or 5 step less can I just choose to take it on the full one to avoid eliminating my reduced one? since rules state you have to choose amongst the lowest LF only... unlike PoG/PuG where you HAD to absorb maximum amount of losses if able.

4. We were screwed over by BR/FR mandated where CP played Bulgaria but AP had not recieved any invasion card so even though he was on map (in Lemnos) it was impossible to fulfill the mandated. I think that is pretty boring. Is this intentional?

5. Some CC cardsa are absolutely crazy, like Feuerwaltz, that you get to keep it during the whole turn and combined with all the numerous +DRM you can get (like arty, HQ and cav)?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Perry Silverman
United States
Powell
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
To answer your questions:

1. RU National Will goes down, but AH National Will does not go back up.

2. This will be addressed in the upcoming IoG Living Rules book.

3. As long as the entire LN is absorbed by units taking fire.

4. So, you need to win the Combat against the CP player using FEUERWALTZ to force a discard of that CC.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Apan Arne
msg tools
ohiogrognard wrote:
To answer your questions:

1. RU National Will goes down, but AH National Will does not go back up.

2. This will be addressed in the upcoming IoG Living Rules book.

3. As long as the entire LN is absorbed by units taking fire.

4. So, you need to win the Combat against the CP player using FEUERWALTZ to force a discard of that CC.


Thanks for reply!

Regarding 1 - so the idea is that you must have AH units recapture their spaces?

On 3, could you elaborate? For example if I choose to have the full corp take the fire (lets say LN=5) - which I could on the basis that both units have the same LF, even though one is reduced - it would be flipped once so LN left is now 2 and then the final 2 would be absorbed with no losses right?

It just feels abit gamey where you can "cheat" your way out of heavy losses even though you could have taken them
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Torsten Hasforth
Denmark
Copenhagen
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Regarding your answer to LCU/SCU permanent elimination:

ohiogrognard wrote:
2. This will be addressed in the upcoming IoG Living Rules book.


Can't you share a bit in what direction your thoughts go. Beause these two rules:

12.6.4.d.
“If there is no SCU available to replace a destroyed LCU, the LCU goes into the Replaceable Units Box without a replacement.”

12.2.5.c.2.
“If the Loss Number is equal to or greater than its Loss Factor, the reduced-strength SCU is destroyed and the LCU is permanently eliminated.”

Seem to have an unintentional synergy. As the original poster stated.

T.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Perry Silverman
United States
Powell
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
1. Yes. See Rule 23.2b.

3. At this time, yes. But that quirk will be addressed in the upcoming IoG Living Rules book.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Apan Arne
msg tools
Yeah, I like the way in PoG/PuG it forces you to have SCUs in box to prevent permanent eliminations. Right now there is very little incentive to rebuild SCUs when you can just spam new reduced LCUs for a ton of punch, cheaply.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Perry Silverman
United States
Powell
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Rule 12.6.4.d will be revised to read: "If there is no SCU available to replace a destroyed LCU, the LCU is eliminated."

Rule 12.2.6a will be revised to read "If the Loss Number is equal to or greater than the smallest Loss Factor (LF) among the units taking fire, then the units taking fire must try to absorb all the damage indicated by Loss Number. First, the unit with the smallest LN must try to absorb the entire LN. If it is destroyed, the next unit with the smallest LN must try to absorb the entire LN. If two units have the same LN, and one of them is reduced strength, then the reduced strength unit must try to absorb the entire LN. Otherwise, the player whose units are taking fire decides which of those units will absorb the damage.

I don't see a Rule 12.2.5.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kai Mölleken
Germany
45147 Essen
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ohiogrognard wrote:
Rule 12.6.4.d will be revised to read: "If there is no SCU available to replace a destroyed LCU, the LCU is eliminated."


I suppose this should read "[...]the LCU is permanently eliminated.", right? Should be obvious but this way there could be no misunderstandings.

But there's one thing I'm wondering now. I haven't done any maths on this but it seemed to me as if you designed the counter mix with your original rule in mind. How does the counter mix hold up with this change? Is there a risk of too many LCUs being permanently eliminated over the course of the game this way? I mean the Russians have a total of 10 regular Infantry SCUS as replacements for 49 LCUs. The Germans have a ratio of 10-10 and 10-13 for the Res. forces. The Austrains have a ratio of 10-29. The Italians have 9-27.

Seems to me like this change would favour the CP...

Maybe players should test the impact first before it makes it into the Living Rules?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Torsten Hasforth
Denmark
Copenhagen
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
So two suggested revised rules:

1. No SCU –> LCU is permanently eliminated
2. Apply all loss to weakest unit first
But then you have:
3. If loss factor kills LCU and replacing SCU – permanently eliminate LCU

That would mean any stack of RU LCU taking a 7 loss would lead to a permanently eliminated LCU unless stacked with a SCU?

Rule 1 cited: 12.6.4.d: "If there is no SCU available to replace a destroyed LCU, the LCU is eliminated."

Rule 2 cited: 12.2.6a: "If the Loss Number is equal to or greater than the smallest Loss Factor (LF) among the units taking fire, then the units taking fire must try to absorb all the damage indicated by Loss Number. First, the unit with the smallest LN must try to absorb the entire LN. If it is destroyed, the next unit with the smallest LN must try to absorb the entire LN. If two units have the same LN, and one of them is reduced strength, then the reduced strength unit must try to absorb the entire LN. Otherwise, the player whose units are taking fire decides which of those units will absorb the damage.
(Do note as an aside “must try to absorb all the damage indicated by Loss Number” is actually contradicted by the subsequent part of the rule. Example two units loss factor 1 and loss factor 3. Need to take 3 losses. With the rule as written you would kill the loss factor 1 unit first and then be unable to assign further losses)

But then there is:

Rule 3 cited: 12.2.0.5.c.2 (I am making up the rule number as the labelling under 12.2 before 12.2.1 is not clear)
But the rule goes: “If the remaining Loss Number is equal to or greater than its Loss Factor, the full-strength SCU loses a step. The reduced-strength SCU then absorbs the remaining Loss Number. If the Loss Number is equal to or greater than its Loss Factor, the reduced-strength SCU is destroyed and the LCU is permanently eliminated.”
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Perry Silverman
United States
Powell
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Kai, the number of Reserve Box SCUs is based on the number of LCUs at start. You'll never have 49 RU LCUs on the board at the same time. The game requires you to properly use RPs and unit consolidations.


1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Apan Arne
msg tools
dursten wrote:
So two suggested revised rules:

1. No SCU –> LCU is permanently eliminated
2. Apply all loss to weakest unit first
But then you have:
3. If loss factor kills LCU and replacing SCU – permanently eliminate LCU

That would mean any stack of RU LCU taking a 7 loss would lead to a permanently eliminated LCU unless stacked with a SCU?

Rule 1 cited: 12.6.4.d: "If there is no SCU available to replace a destroyed LCU, the LCU is eliminated."

Rule 2 cited: 12.2.6a: "If the Loss Number is equal to or greater than the smallest Loss Factor (LF) among the units taking fire, then the units taking fire must try to absorb all the damage indicated by Loss Number. First, the unit with the smallest LN must try to absorb the entire LN. If it is destroyed, the next unit with the smallest LN must try to absorb the entire LN. If two units have the same LN, and one of them is reduced strength, then the reduced strength unit must try to absorb the entire LN. Otherwise, the player whose units are taking fire decides which of those units will absorb the damage.
(Do note as an aside “must try to absorb all the damage indicated by Loss Number” is actually contradicted by the subsequent part of the rule. Example two units loss factor 1 and loss factor 3. Need to take 3 losses. With the rule as written you would kill the loss factor 1 unit first and then be unable to assign further losses)

But then there is:

Rule 3 cited: 12.2.0.5.c.2 (I am making up the rule number as the labelling under 12.2 before 12.2.1 is not clear)
But the rule goes: “If the remaining Loss Number is equal to or greater than its Loss Factor, the full-strength SCU loses a step. The reduced-strength SCU then absorbs the remaining Loss Number. If the Loss Number is equal to or greater than its Loss Factor, the reduced-strength SCU is destroyed and the LCU is permanently eliminated.”


Yeah this is what we experienced aswell. A stack of two RU LCUs + one SCU (esp. those nutty guard SCUs) negates the perma. eliminations.

Personally I prefer the "simple" rule of just applying losses as you want but you must absorb the full LN if possible. I understand why it was implemented - to promote the Troop Quality rule by forcing LCU eliminations where possible. But my experience in PoG/PuG says it is going to be BLOODY either way, so I dont think thats necessary.

I do like the idea of the army being worn down over time though and I guess thats the idea. In PoG for example you can spend a turn replacing and practically rebuild the whole army from scratch, which is rediculous. I think it can be solved here by simply lowering the RP values marginally across the board - there are soooo many LCUs in the game anyway and fire table is more bloody, RP feels less mandatory when you can spam huge reinforcements anyway. I think thats a good thing



Quote:
Rule 12.6.4.d will be revised to read: "If there is no SCU available to replace a destroyed LCU, the LCU is eliminated."


I assume aswell it means Permanently eliminated - that will solve alot of the LN shenanigans
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Perry Silverman
United States
Powell
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Torsten, Rule 12.2.G.5c will be revised to match new Rule 12.6.2a.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Apan Arne
msg tools
I have to add emphasis to this question -

We were screwed over by BR/FR mandated where CP played Bulgaria but AP had not recieved any invasion card so even though he was on map (in Lemnos) it was impossible to fulfill the mandated?

Is this intended play? Maybe change wording so that AP must have LCUs in Balkans?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Perry Silverman
United States
Powell
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Will revise to match the intent of AP having BR/FR units inland.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.