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Subject: Monkey Selfie Case Settled rss

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Andre
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http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/12/asia/monkey-selfie-settlement/...

As if there wasn't more in life to worry about, but apparently, this was a ground breaking case in copyright protection. But we can all rest in ease, case settled, and all seem to benefit. A good meme background, if ever I saw one though.
 
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Trey Chambers
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It doesn't sound like the copyright issue was settled though since a settlement was reached.
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John Hathorn
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Shampoo4you wrote:

It doesn't sound like the copyright issue was settled though since a settlement was reached.
Exactly. A settlement between two parties doesn't settle the ownership issue in the slightest as far as the rest of us are concerned. Am I free to use the monkey selfie on my for-profit blog?

I happen to agree with Wikipedia and don't think the monkey should be able to own the copyright. PETA is out of their gourd insisting that the monkey own anything; much less a copyright on a photo. However, perhaps Slater should own it since it was his camera.

What if I setup a mechanism that allows an animal to snap a photo when they step on a pressure plate and then let some "wild" dogs and cats play near that plate? Are those photos mine? My mechanism and my camera? Or do they belong to the animals? And which animal if multiple animals ended up in frame?
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Agent J
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Apparently there is a tree that owns the land the tree is on somewhere.
 
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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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Also I'm trying to figure out how PETA gets to own 25% of a picture that a monkey took, diverting the funds to its cause instead of to the monkey's personal interest.
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C Bazler
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Quote:
Under the agreement, Slater will donate 25% of any future revenue derived from using or selling the monkey selfie to charities that protect the crested macaques' habitat in Indonesia


This doesn't make sense. If the monkey actually had "rights" to this photo, and any royalties attached to it, the monkey would simply have been handed cash and allowed to spend it as it chose (provided the animal could figure out how to do such a thing).

As this settlement stands, it seems PETA is arguing that animals themselves don't have copyright rights, but the charity organizations that protect them do. A more cynical take-away from this case would be that animal rights have not been advanced at all, but profit opportunities for animal rights charities have increased immensely.
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Shawn Fox
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cbazler wrote:
Quote:
Under the agreement, Slater will donate 25% of any future revenue derived from using or selling the monkey selfie to charities that protect the crested macaques' habitat in Indonesia


This doesn't make sense. If the monkey actually had "rights" to this photo, and any royalties attached to it, the monkey would simply have been handed cash and allowed to spend it as it chose (provided the animal could figure out how to do such a thing).

This sounds like the right solution to me. Just give the cash directly to the monkey and let it figure out what to do with it. I wonder if the monkey would prefer to receive its money in the form of a check, high value bills, low value bills, or coins?
 
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Wendell
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Wait till the first AI takes a photo.
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Wendell
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sfox wrote:
cbazler wrote:
Quote:
Under the agreement, Slater will donate 25% of any future revenue derived from using or selling the monkey selfie to charities that protect the crested macaques' habitat in Indonesia


This doesn't make sense. If the monkey actually had "rights" to this photo, and any royalties attached to it, the monkey would simply have been handed cash and allowed to spend it as it chose (provided the animal could figure out how to do such a thing).

This sounds like the right solution to me. Just give the cash directly to the monkey and let it figure out what to do with it. I wonder if the monkey would prefer to receive its money in the form of a check, high value bills, low value bills, or coins?


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Agent J
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wifwendell wrote:
Wait till the first AI takes a photo.


The designer of the AI gets the money. If that monkey had an owner they would probably get the rights to the photo. Those are pretty clear cut things - it's when we have an entity with no owner that there's a problem, but apparently the monkey is 25% owned by some organization now.
 
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Trey Chambers
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Jythier wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
Wait till the first AI takes a photo.


The designer of the AI gets the money. If that monkey had an owner they would probably get the rights to the photo. Those are pretty clear cut things - it's when we have an entity with no owner that there's a problem, but apparently the monkey is 25% owned by some organization now.


Wrong, the owner, not the designer, of the AI would own the rights, under current law. It's currently no different than taking a picture with a drone that you own.

But will owning AI be considered legalized slavery assuming it's self-aware? That's the real question. And one for another thread.
 
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Trey Chambers
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Jythier wrote:
Also I'm trying to figure out how PETA gets to own 25% of a picture that a monkey took, diverting the funds to its cause instead of to the monkey's personal interest.


I expect PETA knew they would lose the case, so settled to get money for a pet (see what I did there?) cause.

So really, the can is just kicked down the road until the next primate takes a selfie.
 
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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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Shampoo4you wrote:
Jythier wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
Wait till the first AI takes a photo.


The designer of the AI gets the money. If that monkey had an owner they would probably get the rights to the photo. Those are pretty clear cut things - it's when we have an entity with no owner that there's a problem, but apparently the monkey is 25% owned by some organization now.


Wrong, the owner, not the designer, of the AI would own the rights, under current law. It's currently no different than taking a picture with a drone that you own.

But will owning AI be considered legalized slavery assuming it's self-aware? That's the real question. And one for another thread.


Ah, that's probably right. The designer of the AI would be the first owner, although an individual's work often falls under a corporation and so the corp would get the ownership. But yeah.
 
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fightcitymayor
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Shampoo4you wrote:
So really, the can is just kicked down the road until the next primate takes a selfie.
People are primates.

 
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wifwendell wrote:
sfox wrote:
cbazler wrote:
Quote:
Under the agreement, Slater will donate 25% of any future revenue derived from using or selling the monkey selfie to charities that protect the crested macaques' habitat in Indonesia


This doesn't make sense. If the monkey actually had "rights" to this photo, and any royalties attached to it, the monkey would simply have been handed cash and allowed to spend it as it chose (provided the animal could figure out how to do such a thing).

This sounds like the right solution to me. Just give the cash directly to the monkey and let it figure out what to do with it. I wonder if the monkey would prefer to receive its money in the form of a check, high value bills, low value bills, or coins?




No, sorry, monkey. PETA has invested in a resource based economy. You'll have to settle for bit-bananas.
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Damian
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cbazler wrote:
Quote:
Under the agreement, Slater will donate 25% of any future revenue derived from using or selling the monkey selfie to charities that protect the crested macaques' habitat in Indonesia


This doesn't make sense. If the monkey actually had "rights" to this photo, and any royalties attached to it, the monkey would simply have been handed cash and allowed to spend it as it chose (provided the animal could figure out how to do such a thing).

Not necessarily. Human beings who are judged incompetent to manage their affairs are commonly appointed guardians. It's not really a stretch to say both that the monkey both has a copyright interest but is not competent to just be given money and it should be placed in a trust or the like.
 
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Damian
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fightcitymayor wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
So really, the can is just kicked down the road until the next primate takes a selfie.
People are primates.

Primates are people (so far).



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fightcitymayor
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damiangerous wrote:
fightcitymayor wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
So really, the can is just kicked down the road until the next primate takes a selfie.
People are primates.
Primates are people (so far).
So far.
But could there be a non-human primate primate?

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Daniel Kearns
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Jythier wrote:
Apparently there is a tree that owns the land the tree is on somewhere.


Athens, GA!
 
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John Hathorn
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Shampoo4you wrote:
Jythier wrote:
Also I'm trying to figure out how PETA gets to own 25% of a picture that a monkey took, diverting the funds to its cause instead of to the monkey's personal interest.


I expect PETA knew they would lose the case, so settled to get money for a pet (see what I did there?) cause.

So really, the can is just kicked down the road until the next primate takes a selfie.
Or until someone uses this particula picture in a for-profit business. The settlement was just between PETA and the photographer versus Wikipedia. I don't remember getting any money at all!
 
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