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Subject: Tips for playing Fang rss

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Olivier Picard
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I'm not sure if I'm not playing it right or if he's just weaker than the other. It's main mechanic, the beasts, are mostly dependent on event cards. There's a few power card that add or use beast, but you need to draw them. In general he seems to be luck dependent to a certain point.

I also find its spirit tracks to be kind of slow considering it can only place one presence per turn. Its innate power cannot target blight which means that once it start loosing ground its hard to come back.

I apologize if it sounds like I'm complaining. I absolutely love the game ! If you have tips on how to play Fang I'd love to hear them !
 
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Andrés Santiago Pérez-Bergquist
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Sharp Fangs Hiding in the Leaves is a fairly early-game spirit. You start off with a fast-damage innate power you want to use to pick off lone explorers to stop them from building. Since it can only gather one, you'll need to start thinking ahead to where you want to push two afterwards, to set you up for a big attack next turn. Remember that your presence can move with animals, and that you can convert a presence to an animal, which can let you do something like push two animals with two presence, convert one to an animal next turn, and then have three animals in place for that second turn. Obviously, powers that add animals in general are good, but don't be blinded by them. You get a lot of power draws, so don't be afraid to take the power that's really useful right now but with dubious long-term prospects. Once things get blighted, you start having trouble, so you need to be proactive about stopping threats before they're threats.
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Dylan Thurston
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You are taking two growth options each turn, right? (Sometimes people miss that.)

One key is to really concentrate your Beasts so that Ranging Hunt can do a lot of damage. It's pretty easy to shut the Invaders down completely early-game.

Don't underestimate those elements on its play track. And about half of the event cards have Beasts effects; it really helps to know what they might be, and, eg, make sure you have your Beasts in lands with concentrations of Invaders.

As an aside, I think its perceived weakness to you may be my fault: on an earlier version in playtesting, I won the game before the Invaders got their first action. It was nerfed after that.
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Justin S.
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dthurston wrote:


As an aside, I think its perceived weakness to you may be my fault: on an earlier version in playtesting, I won the game before the Invaders got their first action. It was nerfed after that.


That's a story I'd love to hear.
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Mark Johnson
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-Fang's innate ability is key to having success with the spirit. Blight can be annoying, but it's not the end of the world (unless it gets out of hand). Consider that you can gather into a non-blighted area and then push them into a blighted area. They won't be able to do damage in that area in the next round, but you could do further gathering and pushing to get them where they need to be. If the area you want to affect is blighted, hopefully major/minor powers will help in this regard.

-Leaving around a single animal token in various lands is useful when it comes to the events and allows you to need less foresight when planning your actions. That's due to being able to place presence where there are animals and then convert it into an animal if extra damage is necessary.

-As a previous poster mentioned, you have to be very proactive about dealing with invaders before they blight.

-While travelling with your packs is good idea, it's also a good to maintain at least presence in both jungles because 2 of your 4 starting power cards requires presence in jungles.

-I usually like mainly going up the energy track and gaining cards often with this spirit. I mainly go up this track to make it much easier to use its innate ability.

-I find powers that require sacred sites a little less useful for this spirit as converting presence to animals will up your damage potential. Blight removal powers are decent because they will allow you to use your innate more freely. Additionally, if the healthy island card flips, events will generally make lose presence a lot more often than if it had stayed healthy. This is worse for you than some other spirits, since you'd like to convert them into animals.
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Dylan Thurston
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SnarksandBoojums wrote:
dthurston wrote:
As an aside, I think its perceived weakness to you may be my fault: on an earlier version in playtesting, I won the game before the Invaders got their first action. It was nerfed after that.
That's a story I'd love to hear.
Here's my playtesting report:
Quote:
Game #9: Solo blowout with Sharp Fangs

That was a blowout! I just won a game before the first Invader Phase. I was playing Sharp Fangs, and manuevered myself into a good position to prevent any building on the first phase. Then the Event Card was revealed, and it was Outpaced. I paid the cost, and the combination of my slow powers and the Beasts and Dahan attacking on the card was enough to wipe out all the invaders.

The Invader was France Level 2, for what that was worth. (Which was something, since it meant two extra Explorers to kill.)

Even without the lucky Event Card, I think I was in quite a good position to win very soon.
Looking back, it seems three things have been changed to make that not possible: there was no starting Blight on the board in that version; the card play track on Fangs was lengthened (starting 2-2-3-..., so it can no longer play 3 cards on the first turn); and the really lucky combination was that Outpaced had Beasts Attack then, which was really good since one of my slow powers was Teeth Gleam from Darkness, letting me add a Beasts just where I needed it.

Outpaced was also reworked to make it a per-power rather than per-spirit choice, and having the cost to go fast be higher. But it looks like I could have still afforded the cost.

EDIT: Here's the post-game image. Apologies for the blurriness.
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Chris Ingersoll
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dthurston wrote:
You are taking two growth options each turn, right? (Sometimes people miss that.)


Yeah. My friend and I have been playing his Kickstarter copy at least twice a week since it arrived and we just noticed this tonight. Specifically, we noticed it on Forbidden Wilds, then realized it was also on Sharp Fangs and Serpent.
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Jack Liu
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What are people's thoughts about Fang openings?

I see that you want to go energy for the symbols as reaching 2 plant with 3 beast is hard without them and you already start at 2 plays.


Opening: Growth Presence from energy; Growth power card & 1 energy
Would you want to play both your slow animal & plant cards here to proc level 2 innate?

Or wait 1 round on both the plant & animal cards because next round you can unlock plant symbol. That would allow you to play each of the slow animal & plant powers separately and proc level 2&3 innate on round 2 & 3 before reclaiming

If you wait, I'm guessing you play starting fast power + minor card gained or other slow starting power without plant.
 
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Steve Schlepphorst
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My general opening has been: put Fang back in the box, pick something different. whistle /s?

I've only begun using the expansion, and am pretty reasonable at the game (~30 plays, have beaten most adversaries on highest difficulty), but find Fang to be the only spirit I actively dislike.
I suspect this has to do with the fact that I'm new to the expansion and am therefore playing vs. France with more new stuff, where double explorers makes Fang's principal innate worse at picking them off before building. (And I have less experience playing into events.) I could just be bad at playing it, but I suspect that on future plays (at least against France), I'll spend less time worrying about triggering the innates earlier, and more time enjoying the above-average economy/plays.

(I would be curious to see others talk more about Fang.)
 
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Scott Yost
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This doesn't help in the general case, but last night I played 2p with River. With River playing Boon of Vigor every single turn, I went straight up the plays track all the way to five + reclaim 2 and ignored the energy track. At 5 plays with five extra energy income you can hit all your innates and attack two separate board spaces even before the five cards you're playing. I happened to pick up Tigers Hunting which obviously you can't depend on and that didn't hurt either.
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Scott Yost
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I'd be interested in a discussion of when you would convert presence to beasts. I found that Fang has lots of 0 range powers so I tend to need presence all over, but also really wants to get lots of beasts out. I'm constrained to placing one presence per turn so I don't usually get too far ahead of my presence needs. You can fix a lack of presence by using ranging hunt to move your presence along with a beast, but that really constraints where you can use ranging hunt and might prevent you from using it to attack if you need it to set up Prey On The Builders for example.

I've never used this option, which feels like probably the wrong amount to be using it. Have you used it effectively?
 
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Dylan Thurston
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I use it once or twice every game. Typically I'll use it on a turn where I need just a few more Beasts for enough damage, or occasionally where I know I'll lose a Presence anyway. But usually not first thing, since you do need a certain amount of Presence on the board.
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Scott Yost
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Do you think the power would be too powerful if the timing restiction was relaxed from 'the spirit phase' to 'anytime between power uses'? I'd definitely use it if I was going to lose a presence, but lots of presence losses are surprises from the event deck and I'd sure like to use it in those cases too. I guess it does open up a window that you could target with the power in the slow phase and then evict your presence, but I don't know how big a deal that is.
 
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Jack Liu
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Probably wouldn't matter too much because unlike Dahan, beasts are striking before Invaders with your powers.

I would use it whenever it was needed to do extra damage or build a clump of beasts. I find that with Spirits that move with presence, your presence is very mobile and tends to not be at risk of being destroyed (except TS bad ability). It's critical to be able to build a big enough pack to steam roll invaders

Also if Invaders are ravaging where your beasts are, that means you are in prime position to strike at them before that.

My experience with Fangs is more limited but I've played a lot of Thunderspeaker and they are similar in mechanics
 
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Steve Schlepphorst
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Yea but Thunderspeaker is heavily-supported by Minor Powers, deploys more liberally, is effective with really small elemental thresholds, and starts with 6 "units" / board.
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Jack Liu
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anwei wrote:
Yea but Thunderspeaker is heavily-supported by Minor Powers, deploys more liberally, is effective with really small elemental thresholds, and starts with 6 "units" / board.


I agree, TS starts in a stronger position.

What I mean is that I definitely can see Fangs converting their presence to Beasts a lot to build up an army. And unlike TS, they don't rely on presence to multiply with their army count for damage (Manifestation of Power & Glory) so it should be easier for them to sacrifice presence for beast.
 
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Dylan Thurston
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I wasn't sure how I actually played Beasts, so I tried a solo game vs. England France Level 6, reported here: Item for Geeklist "Solitaire Games on Your Table -- October 2017"

The game was surprisingly short, but my Presence came off Energy, then Plays, then Energy, then Plays. The "gain energy" options are tempting and mean that increasing your actual Energy income is hardly necessary. The elements are really nice, though. I converted 2 Presence into Beasts over the course of the short game, and at least once just did it prospectively. I was a bit lucky with the Events, with lots of Beast events, though bear in mind that half the Events have that. (And the Major I gained was great.)

Comparing to Thunderspeaker, it's worth noting that the number of Dahan trends down over time, while if you're doing it right the number of Beasts will trend up.
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R. Eric Reuss
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dthurston wrote:
Comparing to Thunderspeaker, it's worth noting that the number of Dahan trends down over time, while if you're doing it right the number of Beasts will trend up.

Yup. Perhaps eventually back down again as you start kicking off Frenzied Assault, though (and Pent-Up Calamity if you're lucky enough to draw into it :-).

Despite Thunderspeaker and Sharp Fangs both being "aggression via pieces on the board" Spirits, they tend to play very different games. Thunderspeaker excels at smashing buildings / large Invader strongholds, and likes having 1-3 large armies rolling across the land. Sharp Fangs is awesome at Build control[1], and likes having 1-2 Beasts in as many different lands as possible.

[1] = Partly via Explorer-killing, so less so against England.
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G C

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Oddly enough, despite enjoying playing beasts, I don't think I've ever turned a presence token into a beast.

As others have said, the key to playing this spirit is to eliminate explorers with your innate before they have a chance to build. As such, the game will be made harder by adversaries that counter the killing off explorers' strategy (like France and England.) Also make sure that you or one of your allies has some method of blight removal; otherwise, unless you're doing well, you can become boxed in by blight and unable to do much.
 
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Jack Liu
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dthurston wrote:
I wasn't sure how I actually played Beasts, so I tried a solo game vs. England Level 6, reported here: Item for Geeklist "Solitaire Games on Your Table -- October 2017"

The game was surprisingly short, but my Presence came off Energy, then Plays, then Energy, then Plays. The "gain energy" options are tempting and mean that increasing your actual Energy income is hardly necessary. The elements are really nice, though. I converted 2 Presence into Beasts over the course of the short game, and at least once just did it prospectively. I was a bit lucky with the Events, with lots of Beast events, though bear in mind that half the Events have that. (And the Major I gained was great.)

Comparing to Thunderspeaker, it's worth noting that the number of Dahan trends down over time, while if you're doing it right the number of Beasts will trend up.


Wow level 6 England, that's impressive.

Do you think you have to go Major power early vs England/France in order to crack the towns/cities they build up?

It seems really hard to prevent them from building up pass the stage1 turns
 
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Dylan Thurston
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frotes wrote:
Do you think you have to go Major power early vs England/France in order to crack the towns/cities they build up?

It seems really hard to prevent them from building up pass the stage1 turns
It really depends on the Spirit. I don't think it's necessary with Sharp Fangs, although it is probably leads to a higher chance of an early win.
 
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Jack Liu
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Yea I meant for Fang

If you don't go for Major, are you relying on the 2nd innate to be able to break big lands? Seems like it would be hard to do enough damage to break England land clumps with +1hp (which generally require over 10 damage)
 
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Dylan Thurston
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frotes wrote:
If you don't go for Major, are you relying on the 2nd innate to be able to break big lands? Seems like it would be hard to do enough damage to break England land clumps with +1hp (which generally require over 10 damage)
I was worried for a moment that I forgot about the +1hp, until I realized that the game was actually against France, not England.

In that game, I didn't find that Major Powers were necessary to keep France reasonably well in check. I think the same would be true against England. You will eventually need Major Powers in basically any game (and especially to break up England's clumps of land, as you say), the question is how soon. I'd have to play it again to be sure, but I believe that Sharp Fangs could keep England reasonably in check for quite a while with only your innate and unique powers. Prey on the Builders is quite good that way, for instance. And you can build up impressive collections of Beasts, and you should learn to be OK with the Beasts helping you out in unpredictable ways.
 
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Jack Liu
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I could see beasts handling France, 2 explorers is still very killable.

Would definitely need a big clump of beasts to break into England, issue would be moving them all together since Fangs Gather/Push ability doesn't scale like TS does
 
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