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Enemy Coast Ahead: The Doolittle Raid» Forums » Rules

Subject: Submarine Confusion rss

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P. Fowler
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I'm a bit confused on how Subs work here. I know they get placed in Sea Areas, but them being in Contact "provides +1 to Target Acquisitions Checks in Flight Zones in this Sea Area". Problem is, that the subs are on the Naval map, while B-25s acquire their targets from the Flight Map. And even then, I'm guessing that a sub would have to be placed in the Japan Sea Area to even have an effect. Am I correct here, or did I miss something?
 
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Christopher Schall
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I put them on the flight map at Japan (Sea area).
 
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Matt Deuber
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They can also be placed where you intend to rendezvous to aid that roll and they can rescue ditched crews (one crew per sub). So I guess some alternate placement locations to consider, but helping to locate Target cities is the most important.
 
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Jeremy (Jerry) White
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I think the confusion is that they are supposed to help with Target Acquisition, hence the +1 modifier. The confusing bit is that Target Acquisition happens on the Flight Map, but the submarines are...well, they're submarines. They go on the Naval Map. The player has to make the leap between maps, and understand the relationship between the maps. Kinda confusing.

If you place the sub in the Japan sea area, and that submarine is in contact when B-25s launch, then you benefit from the +1 modifier. That sub is also in the Flight zone containing the three city boxes (Tokyo, Nagoya, Osaka/Kobe). Although it may seem convenient to put the Submarine marker on the Flight Map, you have to remember that an in contact submarine triggers Sea Hazards back on the Naval Map.

And as Matt noted, there are other uses for the submarine on the Naval Map. If in contact in the sea area where rendezvous is being attempted, the sub serves as a +1 modifier. And then there is the possibility of picking up a ditched B-25 crew. Finally, if the sub is in contact at the end of a Naval Turn, you earn a Contact marker. Quite useful. That represents recon done by the sub in close proximity to the Japanese coast.

The Submarine marker is intended to represent a point in time and space where the sub is supposed to operate. That's why it can't move once placed, it can only be "in contact" or not in contact. Not in contact could mean there is no sub there. The captain had other problems to contend with, perhaps, or maybe it just means an equipment malfunction.
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P. Fowler
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Thanks, Jeremy. This is an amazing follow-up to Dambusters, and honestly I cannot tell which one is better! But I've got a full game going right now, and I'm planning on giving a full session report afterwards.
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Jeremy (Jerry) White
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Much appreciated.
 
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Mark
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Just to make sure I’m doing it correctly, when the two task forces rendezvous, is the Tuna placed directly in the Japan sea zone or does it accompany the task force?
 
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P. Fowler
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LeroyJS wrote:
Just to make sure I’m doing it correctly, when the two task forces rendezvous, is the Tuna placed directly in the Japan sea zone or does it accompany the task force?

I believe all the subs should be placed during April of the Planning Turns, and they stay in their zones for the remainder of the game (unless destroyed via Airstrike).
 
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Jeremy (Jerry) White
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Correct [12.1.3]. Once placed, subs remain where they are.

Think of those Submarine counters not as representations of submarines, but points where a submarine is supposed to operate and be in contact. The game doesn't allow you to know how a submarine gets to that point on the map or what happens to it en route. The only time you get to know what's going on with a submarine is when it is in contact, and it encounters hazards, which is most likely when the sub is near Japan.

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Mark
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Sorry, I should have specified...I was talking about Scenario 9. Tuna is part of TF-16 and is not on the map at scenario start (unless I overlooked this), but arrives with TF-18 when there is a successful rendezvous.

I was just wondering if I could place the Tuna directly in the Japan sea zone at rendezvous time, even through the rendezvous took place a few sea zones away from Japan.
 
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Jeremy (Jerry) White
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Sorry for the confusion, Mark. TF-16 doesn't have a Submarine, it is comprised of light blue Ship markers and their "Recon" (aircraft), and nothing more (except the light blue Task Force marker itself). That scenario grants you only two Submarines.

So the answer is "no."

It wasn't standard practice to have submarines join carrier task forces for prolonged journeys or raids, as far as I know. Coordination with submarines took place on many occasions, but communication was always tricky.

However, I could see adding an optional rule (a house rule), allowing a Submarine to join the task force by moving with it. It would have to be in contact, and the task force would have to be considered to be moving slowly (no Raid Move possible). I would not put the Submarine marker on the Task Force Layout, however, it should remain in the Sea Area and move during the Underway Phase (if in contact and only if the TF also moves).
 
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