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Subject: Please BGG, put up the Legacy of Dragonholt page. rss

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Dustin
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As discussed in a previous thread. This is not an RPG. It is a narrative adventure board game. It's listed as a board game by FFG. Their press release says board game. I keep trying to talk to people about it and they want to pull it up on here and can't. Please add it already, it's been like 2 months.
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Daily Grind
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It's in the queue (multiple times)

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/items/boardgame/pending/page/6
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Pete
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And get me some tea. Earl Gray. Hot.

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Dustin
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cafin8d wrote:


They said they are gonna put it on the rpg site not the board game, despite it being a board game.
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Greg
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SeerMagic wrote:
cafin8d wrote:


They said they are gonna put it on the rpg site not the board game, despite it being a board game.

Do you have a link for this?
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Jeff Saxton
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I gotta say, I looked at the webpage for this at the main FFG site -- it looks and feels like an RPG, not a regular board game.
 
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Greg
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Mack_me_Bucko wrote:
I gotta say, I looked at the webpage for this at the main FFG site -- it looks and feels like an RPG, not a regular board game.

I don't know about that. To me the big difference between an RPG and a board game is how my actions are responded to. How structured are the responses? If there is ever an action that can provoke an infinite amount of potential responses, it's an RPG. If all responses are finite, it's a board game.

This game seems very structured. It has branching storylines, but everything seems finite. To me, if Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective: The Thames Murders & Other Cases, Tales of the Arabian Nights and T.I.M.E Stories are board games, then this is too from what I have seen about it.
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Russ Williams
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(Game theoretical tangent alert!)

s3kt0r wrote:
To me the big difference between an RPG and a board game is how my actions are responded to. How structured are the responses? If there is ever an action that can provoke an infinite amount of potential responses, it's an RPG. If all responses are finite, it's a board game.

This seems untrue (or imprecisely stated). There are board games with infinite amounts of possible actions (though I'd agree that it's atypical.)

E.g. I think there are some financial boardgames where you can freely go into debt (let's say for the sake of argument that you must finish with positive money to be able to win), so in auctions you could bid any amount of money, no matter how large (even though of course sufficiently large bids become irrationally bad play), i.e. you have an infinite amount of possible actions.

I'd say rather that a significant difference between an RPG and a boardgame is that boardgames have explicitly spelled out rules, or at least that is their intention: all situations which can arise are covered by the rules, without requiring players to make judgment calls and improvise to resolve "unexpected" or "strange" situations or player actions. (Of course sometimes players have to do this in boardgames due to unclearly written rules...)
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Andy Leighton
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Mack_me_Bucko wrote:
I gotta say, I looked at the webpage for this at the main FFG site -- it looks and feels like an RPG, not a regular board game.


Especially when you consider that CYOA style books are on the RPG side. To me the Oracle system looks and feels like a deluxe CYOA style game.

Some quotes from FFG "Most of all, it is not about winning or losing, but immersing oneself in a narrative of your own creation, and presenting players with a living and ever-changing unverse. The Oracle system does this by capturing the immersive storytelling of a roleplaying game without the need of a game master." Again this hints at more RPG than boardgame (the bit I have bolded). Note there are a number of RPGs which do not have game masters so that bit should not concern us.
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Andy Leighton
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russ wrote:
(Game theoretical tangent alert!)

[snip]

I'd say rather that a significant difference between an RPG and a boardgame is that boardgames have explicitly spelled out rules, or at least that is their intention: all situations which can arise are covered by the rules, without requiring players to make judgment calls and improvise to resolve "unexpected" or "strange" situations or player actions. (Of course sometimes players have to do this in boardgames due to unclearly written rules...)


Which is maybe true in the main however RPGGeek also covers CYOA style (for example Fighting Fantasy) game books which do have explicitly spelled out rules.
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Dustin
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andyl wrote:
Mack_me_Bucko wrote:
I gotta say, I looked at the webpage for this at the main FFG site -- it looks and feels like an RPG, not a regular board game.


Especially when you consider that CYOA style books are on the RPG side. To me the Oracle system looks and feels like a deluxe CYOA style game.

Some quotes from FFG "Most of all, it is not about winning or losing, but immersing oneself in a narrative of your own creation, and presenting players with a living and ever-changing unverse. The Oracle system does this by capturing the immersive storytelling of a roleplaying game without the need of a game master." Again this hints at more RPG than boardgame (the bit I have bolded). Note there are a number of RPGs which do not have game masters so that bit should not concern us.


If FFG thought their own game was an RPG, they would have most certainly put it under their RPG pages. Instead it's under board games and is called a narrative adventure boardgame.
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Ratimir Ismailobrat
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SeerMagic wrote:
As discussed in a previous thread.


If there's a previous thread, why start a new one?

SeerMagic wrote:
They said they are gonna put it on the rpg site not the board game, despite it being a board game.


[citation needed]. I recall a comment something along the lines of "we're considering where it fits best", but I don't think I've seen any indication that a decision had been reached.

SeerMagic wrote:
If FFG thought their own game was an RPG, they would have most certainly put it under their RPG pages. Instead it's under board games and is called a narrative adventure boardgame.


FFG have employed some rather odd definitions in the past (particularly treading a very thin line between what is a miniatures game on a board and what is a board game with miniatures). FFG sets the definitions used by FFG. BGG sets the definitions used by BGG. Neither company is under any obligation to follow the other's lead.
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SeerMagic wrote:

If FFG thought their own game was an RPG, they would have most certainly put it under their RPG pages. Instead it's under board games and is called a narrative adventure boardgame.


Sometimes publishers release alternate art items and call them Expansions, with Expansions on the box. Then people submit corrections to the Accessory entry, and say, "It says Expansion on the box", even though it fits with BGG's definition of an Accessory (alternate art).
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Chris in Kansai
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ratimir wrote:
SeerMagic wrote:
As discussed in a previous thread.


If there's a previous thread, why start a new one?


Welcome to BoardGameGeek!
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Edwin Woody
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andyl wrote:
russ wrote:
(Game theoretical tangent alert!)

[snip]

I'd say rather that a significant difference between an RPG and a boardgame is that boardgames have explicitly spelled out rules, or at least that is their intention: all situations which can arise are covered by the rules, without requiring players to make judgment calls and improvise to resolve "unexpected" or "strange" situations or player actions. (Of course sometimes players have to do this in boardgames due to unclearly written rules...)


Which is maybe true in the main however RPGGeek also covers CYOA style (for example Fighting Fantasy) game books which do have explicitly spelled out rules.


Yet the BGG side also has some CYOA mechanic games. So that measurement is hardly cut in stone, now is it?
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Andy Leighton
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Phogg wrote:
andyl wrote:
russ wrote:
(Game theoretical tangent alert!)

[snip]

I'd say rather that a significant difference between an RPG and a boardgame is that boardgames have explicitly spelled out rules, or at least that is their intention: all situations which can arise are covered by the rules, without requiring players to make judgment calls and improvise to resolve "unexpected" or "strange" situations or player actions. (Of course sometimes players have to do this in boardgames due to unclearly written rules...)


Which is maybe true in the main however RPGGeek also covers CYOA style (for example Fighting Fantasy) game books which do have explicitly spelled out rules.


Yet the BGG side also has some CYOA mechanic games. So that measurement is hardly cut in stone, now is it?


Sure - but it explains why there has to be some discussion as to which side of the fence this will fall on, and why it doesn't immediately go on to BGG by default.
 
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Greg
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russ wrote:
(Game theoretical tangent alert!)

s3kt0r wrote:
To me the big difference between an RPG and a board game is how my actions are responded to. How structured are the responses? If there is ever an action that can provoke an infinite amount of potential responses, it's an RPG. If all responses are finite, it's a board game.

This seems untrue (or imprecisely stated). There are board games with infinite amounts of possible actions (though I'd agree that it's atypical.)

E.g. I think there are some financial boardgames where you can freely go into debt (let's say for the sake of argument that you must finish with positive money to be able to win), so in auctions you could bid any amount of money, no matter how large (even though of course sufficiently large bids become irrationally bad play), i.e. you have an infinite amount of possible actions.

I'd say rather that a significant difference between an RPG and a boardgame is that boardgames have explicitly spelled out rules, or at least that is their intention: all situations which can arise are covered by the rules, without requiring players to make judgment calls and improvise to resolve "unexpected" or "strange" situations or player actions. (Of course sometimes players have to do this in boardgames due to unclearly written rules...)

It's probably imprecisely stated (or just untrue) because I'm still trying to distill it in my head. I concede that some inputs and outputs in board games are numbers and therefore could be infinite. But, that's it, right? It's just a number choice. I can't decide to pay the bank back in Fruit Loops.

In RPGs, I can take any action that my imagination comes up with, or at least try to, and the game has to respond to it. There are an endless type of actions I can take. Instead of fighting the monster, I can try to negotiate with it. I can try tossing one of my friends at it. I can choose to draw the Mona Lisa eating Skittles in the dirt with my sword. The game world has to respond to any action I choose. My actions are only limited by my imagination. I cannot do that in a board game unless there is a section that handles drawing Mona Lisas eating Skittles.

But, I think this is what you are saying in your own definition, so I think we agree.
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Dave J
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s3kt0r wrote:

I can try tossing one of my friends at it.


Note to self, no adventuring with this guy.
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BG.EXE
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typo360 wrote:
s3kt0r wrote:

I can try tossing one of my friends at it.


Note to self, no adventuring with this guy.


Note to self, adventure with that guy.
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Man thinks, the river flows.
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    RPGGeek.com is up and running? Every time I check it's still in test mode with some sample data appearing on the front page.

             S.


 
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Dave J
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Sagrilarus wrote:

    RPGGeek.com is up and running? Every time I check it's still in test mode with some sample data appearing on the front page.

             S.




It appears to be running for me. I've never seen anything in "test mode". The only odd thing is I have to re-login.
 
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typo360 wrote:
Sagrilarus wrote:

    RPGGeek.com is up and running? Every time I check it's still in test mode with some sample data appearing on the front page.

             S.




It appears to be running for me. I've never seen anything in "test mode". The only odd thing is I have to re-login.



    I was being sarcastic. There just isn't a lot of traffic there, stuff remains on the front page for a week or more.

    Putting this game there kind of ghetto-izes it because RPG Geek doesn't get anywhere near as much traffic as BGG does. Given the nature of Role Playing Games and copyright issues it's much more difficult to post materials that are worthy of attention. Though I'll grant that BGG has slowed down too.

 
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Dave J
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doh lol.
 
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Cameron Harris
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https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/8/7/legacy-o...

"Fantasy Flight Games is pleased to announce a new cooperative narrative game in Legacy of Dragonholt! The first game to use the Oracle system, Legacy of Dragonholt contains six quests set in the Runebound universe that take as many as six daring heroes to the outskirts of Terrinoth. Adventurers build their own stories by making choices that will lead into dark caves and dangerous forests, pit them against cunning bandits and vicious monsters, earn them wealth and fame, and hopefully bring them to foil the plot of an evil overlord."

"The Oracle system does this by capturing the immersive storytelling of a roleplaying game without the need of a game master."

Absolutely nothing in that description sounds like a board game. This is a RPG by their own description.
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Zachary Pickel

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The mechanics sound similar to Winter Tales.
 
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