Recommend
5 
 Thumb up
 Hide
38 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: Natural Disasters and Religious Response rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Lynette
United States
Richland
Washington
flag msg tools
Yep, I am a girl Scientist. Come for the breasts; Stay for the brains!
badge
For as long as I shall live I will testify to love; I'll be a witness in the silences when words are not enough.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
First I want to point out this:

The whole article is worth reading but I pulled out a few highlights below.


Faith Biased groups provide the bulk of disaster relief



Quote:


In a disaster, churches don’t just hold bake sales to raise money or collect clothes to send to victims; faith-based organizations are integral partners in state and federal disaster relief efforts. They have specific roles and a sophisticated communication and coordination network to make sure their efforts don’t overlap or get in each others’ way.

...

Samaritan’s Purse, an evangelical aid group run by Rev. Franklin Graham, has trucks at the ready in Florida with chainsaws and debris removal experts to help clean up houses. After initial cleanup, the group has contracting services available to help the needy rebuild their homes. The group has responded to 20 disasters already this year, said Luther Harrison, vice president of North American Ministries for Samaritan’s Purse.


...

"About 80% of all recovery happens because of non-profits, and the majority of them are faith-based," said Greg Forrester, CEO of the national VOAD. The money is "all raised by the individuals who go and serve, raised through corporate connections, raised through church connections," and amounts to billions of dollars worth of disaster recovery assistance, he said.

And it is not just Christian congregations involved, Forrester said. There are also other faith groups including Islamic, Buddhist and Jewish relief agencies at work in disaster zones.

"FEMA can not do what it does so well without the cooperation of faith-based non-profit organizaitons and churches," said the Rev. Jamie Johnson, director of the Department of Homeland Security's Center for Faith-Based & Neighborhood Partnerships. "It's a beautiful relationship between government and the private sector and it is something to behold."





I want highlight this bit "They have specific roles and a sophisticated communication and coordination network to make sure their efforts don’t overlap or get in each others’ way." Because it again notes what I tried to point out in the Osteen thread last week.

Most Churches have long standing partnerships and ROLES in disaster relief plans. For months and YEARS before specific disasters hit they participate calmly and RATIONALLY in planning out which groups should do which activities to OPTIMIZE the efforts of all.

So while it surely felt great to many to bash on high profile churches like Osteen's for not trying doing EVERYTHING as a last minute throw-together effort while in the middle of the disaster itself... it was likely unjust to do so. Since I would bet my favorite game from my collection that they and other mega-churches had/have been part of these larger efforts all along. Their concern and genuine heartfelt charity efforts happen every day, quietly and without fanfare... when the spotlights are not on, to help prepare for disasters, in addition to all the other types of charity relief they provide year round.





I also want to call attention to this message to Christians/Religious people from a well known Christian Pastor.


If your God is a jerk... it might just be YOU


Quote:


By trying to interpret natural disasters and terrible circumstances, we easily convert them into a sort of weaponized religious propaganda, we end up assigning to God all our fears and prejudices and hangups—we run the risk of believing and making other people believe, that God is as much of a jerk as we are.

...

Maybe when people are being terrorized by nature or by the inhumanity around them, instead of shouting sermons at them—we should shut up and simply try to be a loving, compassionate presence.
Maybe we should stop trying to make God into something as petty, hateful, judgmental, and cruel as we are.

If the God you’re following and preaching to people in their times of pain is an a-hole—it’s probably not God at all.

It’s probably just you.



I think these are just as, if not more important things to take note of, than the ones that get so much more prominent attention in the major national press and which go so viral in social media.

Thousands and thousands of volunteers and millions to billions of dollars in material support are a true expression of the core values religion teaches, and should matter more than the occasional verbal blatherings of a few that get routinely highlighted (and are often pulled out of context to make them sound worse) as supposedly a representation of Christian/Religious values and their impact in our society.



6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Badolato
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't have a problem with anything else you've written above except this:

So while it surely felt great to many to bash on high profile churches like Osteen's for not trying doing EVERYTHING as a last minute throw-together effort while in the middle of the disaster itself... it was likely unjust to do so.

It was far from unjust. Osteen wasn't bashed for not trying to do EVERYTHING ! He was rightly bashed because he had not opened his megachurch as a refuge or shelter while other churches and businesses in the area had done so readily and without necessary pressure to do so.
23 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Cook
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
I totally agree that faith based groups do a lot of good. But I seriously doubt they are "most" or 80% of the aid. Would love to see the statistics.

My guess is the majority of aid comes from (1) government and (2) neighbors helping neighbors.
9 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Pennsylvania
msg tools
badge
Bitter acerbic harridan
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

In my OP in the other thread, Osteen was contrasted with the vast number of religious groups, including various Christian organizations, that were doing good things. Nothing I said was meant to bash Christians generally. I don't think they should be held to unrealistic standards either.

I gave to the Houston Food Bank as I just generally don't give to religious groups usually. Also I'd never give money through Osteen's charity as it has zero transparency. You'd only have to look at Charity Navigator to know that. By contrast, there are a number of religious groups there like Samaritan's Purse that have a 4 out of 4 rating on that site.

So I agree with you that they do a lot of good and that it's a great giving option particularly for people who are comfortable giving to religious-based charities. I'm going to stick by my assessment of Joel Osteen though. There's pretty nothing in your post that suggests any of what I said was unwarranted.
15 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Pennsylvania
msg tools
badge
Bitter acerbic harridan
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
EMBison wrote:
I totally agree that faith based groups do a lot of good. But I seriously doubt they are "most" or 80% of the aid. Would love to see the statistics.

My guess is the majority of aid comes from (1) government and (2) neighbors helping neighbors.


Well, there are more religious people than non-religious people in this country, so it's no wonder that they tend to get a lot of donations that then are put to good use.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Pennsylvania
msg tools
badge
Bitter acerbic harridan
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In any case, it's good to have a thread balancing out the other threads about the hateful blathermouths. I know it's frustrating for religious people to see them all the time.
6 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Montero
United States
St Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
I'll take Manhattan in a garbage bag. With Latin written on it that says "It's hard to give a shit these days"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We just can't judge religious organizations as a single entity, in any direction. There's great religious charities, yet others are super shitty. The same thing happens with non-religious ones: My food bank is pretty good, Trump's Foundation is not.

The sensible person makes decisions, one at a time, and Joel is an asshat that is there for himself: He is better than Peter Popoff, but not necessarily by all that much.
16 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christina Kahrl
United States
Unionville
Connecticut
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
And then there are also folks like this, who generate little but lulz from folks without faith, and fatuous self-important publicity & spectacular non-achievement among the rest:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2017...

Faith motivates some powerful good in the world, but also powerful evil, and insipid, useless "thoughts & prayers" gestures. In this, they reflect the species as a whole, which reflect that faith is no more or less special than any of the people who have it, or don't.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lynette
United States
Richland
Washington
flag msg tools
Yep, I am a girl Scientist. Come for the breasts; Stay for the brains!
badge
For as long as I shall live I will testify to love; I'll be a witness in the silences when words are not enough.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jonb wrote:
I don't have a problem with anything else you've written above except this:

So while it surely felt great to many to bash on high profile churches like Osteen's for not trying doing EVERYTHING as a last minute throw-together effort while in the middle of the disaster itself... it was likely unjust to do so.

It was far from unjust. Osteen wasn't bashed for not trying to do EVERYTHING ! He was rightly bashed because he had not opened his megachurch as a refuge or shelter while other churches and businesses in the area had done so readily and without necessary pressure to do so.


I don't want to rehash last weeks thread in detail but I do want to point out a few things.

First, Joel Osteen himself has and had no right to declare Lakewood open for use as a shelter at the last minute. He doesn't own that Church, its members do. He is only the head pastor (One among MANY who serve the 50,000 plus regular attenders) and as I noted before he doesn't even take a salary anymore.

Individual independent churches, even mega-churches, are run by committees and elders elected by their congregations.

Additionally it would have been negligent and irresponsible (potentially even criminally so) for the elders of Lakewood to have publicly announced for people to come on down without any preparation to be a shelter set up, right in the middle of the storm. You don't just throw open the doors to a 15,000 plus seat arena with no organization, supplies or security in place. Remember the rapes. robberies and other violence after Katrina in the sports stadium?!?!

If you want to critique them for not being ready to be a back up shelter, fine. I might disagree with you, but at least that is a reasonable assertion.

But the internet feeding frenzy, which got started mid-storm while the streets were still in the process of flooding and the weather was so bad they cancelled services and all other regular use of the facilities because it was too dangerous to travel in the area (and the building was partially flooding itself) was not reasonable.

I happen to think Lakewood church would have opened their doors to help post storm, just like they did, without any "pressure" from social media etc. I think that because they did that in the past after other storms without any pressure or fanfare. They were even an official "shelter" in the past during storms when they were at their original building. But the elders have said that this converted arena has a different layout with a different set of potential problems in terms of being a large shelter during the storms themselves.

Quote:


Lakewood Church spokesman Don Iloff said the building itself had been flooded during the weekend, with water getting close to spilling over the facility’s floodgate. Taking in a crowd of storm evacuees over would’ve been unsafe, although Iloff maintained that the church’s doors were never closed.

“This is crazy. People are saying we’ve locked the church,” he told The Washington Post. “The church has been open from the beginning, but it’s not designated as a shelter.”

Water had receded by Monday, and the building was designated as a shelter Tuesday, Iloff said.
...

The church had 100 air mattresses set up in an upstairs room, according to Iloff’s wife, Jackelyn, who said she didn’t know how many people the church had taken in. There was a medical area with volunteer nurses and doctors ready to help with everything from small cuts to insulin needs.

Storm evacuees will be housed on the second floor, Iloff said, because placing people on the first floor would still be too risky.

“We would be hesitant to put anybody on the first floor as long as there’s rain coming. … We got two more days of rain,” he said.[/b]

...

Iloff pushed back at critics who say the church should’ve let people in sooner. The problem with that building is it’s prone to flooding. … If that building starts to flood, it floods in an instant,” he said. “If we had people on the first floor, you’d be writing a whole different story. I’m telling you, it’ll be horrific.”

Over the weekend, Iloff said a handful of maintenance staff manning the building were instructed to help people looking for shelter. He said only three people made it to the church over the course of the storm. Church officials announced Monday that the facility will be a collection site for distributing supplies such as diapers, baby formula and baby food to Houston-area shelters.

City officials also have expressed interest in turning the church into a command center, though Iloff said he still does not know what that would entail.


As I said in the thread last week, I am not some huge Osteen fan. I have never sent him money nor bought one of his books. But I hate how this hullabaloo was manufactured by haters with an agenda and then spread indiscriminately by people who didn't take any time to think about potential legitimate complications that might exist or wait for any actual verification of the details of what was being claimed.


2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lynette
United States
Richland
Washington
flag msg tools
Yep, I am a girl Scientist. Come for the breasts; Stay for the brains!
badge
For as long as I shall live I will testify to love; I'll be a witness in the silences when words are not enough.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
EMBison wrote:
I totally agree that faith based groups do a lot of good. But I seriously doubt they are "most" or 80% of the aid. Would love to see the statistics.

My guess is the majority of aid comes from (1) government and (2) neighbors helping neighbors.


Well the man USA today was quoting is the CEO of VOAD. So I think he knows what he is talking about in general since he has likely seen all the relevant stats.

VOAD:
https://www.nvoad.org/about-us/our-history/

Quote:
National Voluntary Organizations Active in Disaster (VOAD) was founded over 40 years ago in response to the challenges many disaster organizations experienced following Hurricane Camille, a category 5 storm that hit the Gulf Coast in August, 1969.

Up until that time, numerous governmental, private sector and nonprofit organizations served disaster survivors independently of one another. As a result, help came to the survivors haphazardly.

...

Today, National VOAD is a coalition of 56 of the nation’s most reputable national organizations (faith-based, community-based and other non-profit organizations) and 56 State/Territory VOADs, which represent Local/Regional VOADs and hundreds of other member organizations throughout the country.


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lynette
United States
Richland
Washington
flag msg tools
Yep, I am a girl Scientist. Come for the breasts; Stay for the brains!
badge
For as long as I shall live I will testify to love; I'll be a witness in the silences when words are not enough.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DiamondSylph wrote:
And then there are also folks like this, who generate little but lulz from folks without faith, and fatuous self-important publicity & spectacular non-achievement among the rest:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2017...

Faith motivates some powerful good in the world, but also powerful evil, and insipid, useless "thoughts & prayers" gestures. In this, they reflect the species as a whole, which reflect that faith is no more or less special than any of the people who have it, or don't.


And articles like that one are part of the powerfully stupid and pervasive blather that lead to a large fraction of the populous not just disliking but actively distrusting atheists and being unwilling to risk voting for them.

You may think prayer is useless, but mocking those who think otherwise is counter productive at best, in addition to being divisive and hostility fostering more often than not.

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Pennsylvania
msg tools
badge
Bitter acerbic harridan
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Meerkat wrote:
DiamondSylph wrote:
And then there are also folks like this, who generate little but lulz from folks without faith, and fatuous self-important publicity & spectacular non-achievement among the rest:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2017...

Faith motivates some powerful good in the world, but also powerful evil, and insipid, useless "thoughts & prayers" gestures. In this, they reflect the species as a whole, which reflect that faith is no more or less special than any of the people who have it, or don't.


And articles like that one are part of the powerfully stupid and pervasive blather that lead to a large fraction of the populous not just disliking but actively distrusting atheists and being unwilling to risk voting for them.

You may think prayer is useless, but mocking those who think otherwise is counter productive at best, in addition to being divisive and hostility fostering more often than not.



I agree that it's pointless mockery. I don't think, however, that it's particularly useful to talk about how this is why atheists are disliked and actively distrusted. I wish you would not do that. It's akin to what annoys you. Someone posts some article about a hateful Christian like Falwell and then generalizes that to why Christians aren't particularly liked or trusted by atheists. It's the same shoe, other foot.

We'd all be better off not generalizing.
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christina Kahrl
United States
Unionville
Connecticut
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Adding a bit more meat to the bone on the virtues of NVOAD:

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/hurricane-harvey-di...

If folks can help, I hope that they do, and not simply for my wife's family's sake.

Less happily, the USA Today article -- and Meerkat herself, perhaps -- seem only too happy to sing the praises of Franklin Graham, presumably one of the unnamed people of faith she tries to paint as "quoted out of context." That's especially surprising choice on her part when Mr. Graham has been one of this country's most active ministers when it comes to demonizing fellow Americans who happen to be LGBT. Reverend Graham the Younger has worked unceasingly to create or legislate forms of second-class citizenship for Americans he disapproves of at both the state and federal level. It is very much who he is in word and deed, so there isn't much to take out of context. Does the evil he works to achieve to deliberately hurt many erase other good works he might do to benefit others? We might generously note that he does both equally and leave it at that.

As for noting the money invested in recovery, I think the contrast between the ~$600K cited in the article (generated as volunteer labor, and we all should offer thanks and praise to the volunteers for their labors), that might be a wee bit hard to square as what you get to "80 percent" with when you put that alongside the $7.3 billion FEMA started out with, plus the $15 billion Congress appropriated for it on September 8. If that $22 billion or so is supposed to be 20 percent of any recovery, I pray we do see that $88 billion from folks of faith -- it would be a welcome miracle indeed, considering something like $4 billion was raised after Katrina.

Finally, seeing all this at the same time that the most Evangelical administration in this country's history has been trying to strip almost $900 million from the FEMA budget, well, that's just irony for you, inviting itself where it isn't wanted.
6 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Dearlove
United Kingdom
Isleworth
Middx
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think in the first world this is a USAian experience. Most of our charitable giving is of course to abroad as we tend to not have disasters on your scale, but it is usually to non-religious charities. Most domestic disasters are dealt with by the government.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Dearlove
United Kingdom
Chelmsford
Essex
flag msg tools
SoRCon 11 23-25 Feb 2018 Basildon UK http://www.sorcon.co.uk
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DavidDearlove wrote:
I think in the first world this is a USAian experience. Most of our charitable giving is of course to abroad as we tend to not have disasters on your scale, but it is usually to non-religious charities. Most domestic disasters are dealt with by the government.


Britain's largest 100 charities are listed at https://www.civilsociety.co.uk/uploads/assets/uploaded/165b9.... I'm not going to attempt to look at all 100, but start at the top and see which are religious. But first to note there are a lot of charities that aren't about helping people in need. The most obvious is number 3, the National Trust, which is about preserving buildings and countryside. A good cause, but not the sort of charity we're discussing here. Numbers 1, 2 and 7 are medical research charities, very good work, but not disaster relief. At number 4 is CAF, the Charities Aid Foundation, which acts as a middleman to connect donations to charities. I'm slightly surprised to see it listed in that it must be in danger of double counting. It's probably not all disaster relief, but I believe that's a significant area for it. The biggest ones that include disaster relief are at 5 and 6. So far all secular. Religious charities cut in at 7 and 8. 7 though is about running church schools, also not the sort of charity being considered. 8 is a church. Some of that money will be helping run the church, but the SA are known for helping the homeless among other things. I don't know if they do overseas disaster relief, but if we're considering helping people in need broadly, a significant chunk of their money goes to that.

Then there's a long list of secular charities of various sorts. I wasn't familiar with St Andrews Healthcare but it appears to be secular, but with a chaplaincy service (it works in mental health) so that's probably a tick in both columns. MHA is religious, it once stood for Methodist Homes for the Aged. Leonard Cheshire is an example I happen to know (from The Dam Busters) was founded by a Roman Catholic motivated by his religion. I'm sure the same can be said for others, but if they then aren't directly religious, how do you count them.

The absolutely definite religious relief charity is Christian Aid, at number 44. It's a little more than a quarter the size of Oxfam. Important, but secondary. Of comparable size at 51 is Islamic Relief Worldwide. Given the tithing (apologies for using the Christian origin word) requirements on Muslims, I suspect there's quite a bit more charity from that part of the community that's not as obvious.

If anyone wants to do or find a better analysis, please do.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Holt
England
Rayleigh
Essex
flag msg tools
This is not the cat you're looking for - some other cat maybe?
badge
tout passe, tout lasse, tout casse
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Dearlove wrote:

Britain's largest 100 charities are listed at …


btw - that lists charities by income - a list by assets looks different (if I could find it easily). Note that Eton College is on the list and yet none of the Oxbridge colleges.

When my mother moved into semi-sheltered housing I did a little research into her landlord and discovered that social housing organisations are amongst the biggest "charities" that you've never heard of.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Dearlove
United Kingdom
Chelmsford
Essex
flag msg tools
SoRCon 11 23-25 Feb 2018 Basildon UK http://www.sorcon.co.uk
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
andyholt wrote:
Dearlove wrote:

Britain's largest 100 charities are listed at …


btw - that lists charities by income - a list by assets looks different (if I could find it easily). Note that Eton College is on the list and yet none of the Oxbridge colleges.


Assets generally aren't disposed of, so it's really income that counts in things like disaster relief. Welcome, for example gets (much/most?) of its income from its assets, its the income that defines its work. I'd also be surprised if Trinity Cambridge weren't on the assets list. It has often been said to be among the largest landowners in England (after the state and the National Trust).

Quote:
When my mother moved into semi-sheltered housing I did a little research into her landlord and discovered that social housing organisations are amongst the biggest "charities" that you've never heard of.


And there is an issue there that charity covers various things that should be usefully differentiated. It basically means "we approve of these things, so if you do them - and don't do things like make profits for shareholders - then we'll give you a special tax status". "These things" is quite a mixed list.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Leighton
England
Peterborough
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Dearlove wrote:
If anyone wants to do or find a better analysis, please do.


Also when it comes to large overseas disasters we have DEC (Disasters Emergency Committee) which is an umbrella grouping of charities - some religious, some not. A lot of money goes through them and so the giving may not be to a religious charity - although the religious charity ends up benefiting. DEC also has standards on how much of their money can be spent in the UK, and on standards of aid.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Pennsylvania
msg tools
badge
Bitter acerbic harridan
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DiamondSylph wrote:

Less happily, the USA Today article -- and Meerkat herself, perhaps -- seem only too happy to sing the praises of Franklin Graham, presumably one of the unnamed people of faith she tries to paint as "quoted out of context." That's especially surprising choice on her part when Mr. Graham has been one of this country's most active ministers when it comes to demonizing fellow Americans who happen to be LGBT. Reverend Graham the Younger has worked unceasingly to create or legislate forms of second-class citizenship for Americans he disapproves of at both the state and federal level. It is very much who he is in word and deed, so there isn't much to take out of context. Does the evil he works to achieve to deliberately hurt many erase other good works he might do to benefit others? We might generously note that he does both equally and leave it at that.



I kind of doubt she supports Franklin Graham's frequent vitriol. But it's almost inevitable that Samaritan's Purse would come up in any discussion of this type, because they are such a big charity. When we got an email from the head of our firm about places to donate for Harvey, it was on the list. After some research, I realized he was involved with it, which chose me to choose a different organization to donate to. It's probably fair to say that there are a lot of other people involved with the charity such that there is little danger that money being used for any purpose other than relief efforts, but I can certainly understand the reluctance to use that particular charity - that's why I didn't after all. I think we should be careful, however, to paint the whole charity with Franklin Graham.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J.D. Hall
United States
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
Everyone here has probably seen my posts about how I intensely distrust organized religion.

That being said, I live in a tiny village (2000 people). Every church here put together money, water, diapers, non-perishable food, sun screen, etc., shoved it all into two semi trailers, and drove it down to Houston two days after the storm finally moved east. They're doing the same thing for Florida, Georgia, and the islands in the Gulf. We can grip legitimately about the leaders and loudmouthed publically pious assholes, but most people are sincere in their beliefs and are trying to help.

Oh yeah, RED CROSS anyone?

But hey, I'll leave it to the rest of y'all to generalize, pigeonhole, and demonize religious folks/atheist folks. Shows real intelligence and character.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Junior McSpiffy
United States
Riverton
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sue_G wrote:
DiamondSylph wrote:

Less happily, the USA Today article -- and Meerkat herself, perhaps -- seem only too happy to sing the praises of Franklin Graham, presumably one of the unnamed people of faith she tries to paint as "quoted out of context." That's especially surprising choice on her part when Mr. Graham has been one of this country's most active ministers when it comes to demonizing fellow Americans who happen to be LGBT. Reverend Graham the Younger has worked unceasingly to create or legislate forms of second-class citizenship for Americans he disapproves of at both the state and federal level. It is very much who he is in word and deed, so there isn't much to take out of context. Does the evil he works to achieve to deliberately hurt many erase other good works he might do to benefit others? We might generously note that he does both equally and leave it at that.



I kind of doubt she supports Franklin Graham's frequent vitriol. But it's almost inevitable that Samaritan's Purse would come up in any discussion of this type, because they are such a big charity. When we got an email from the head of our firm about places to donate for Harvey, it was on the list. After some research, I realized he was involved with it, which chose me to choose a different organization to donate to. It's probably fair to say that there are a lot of other people involved with the charity such that there is little danger that money being used for any purpose other than relief efforts, but I can certainly understand the reluctance to use that particular charity - that's why I didn't after all. I think we should be careful, however, to paint the whole charity with Franklin Graham.


Now you have me wondering: rebuilding after Harvey will require how many goats?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trey Chambers
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Ya'll are crazy, Osteen's church has been a shelter for many, many years.

A tax shelter, that is.
8 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Pennsylvania
msg tools
badge
Bitter acerbic harridan
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GameCrossing wrote:
Sue_G wrote:
DiamondSylph wrote:

Less happily, the USA Today article -- and Meerkat herself, perhaps -- seem only too happy to sing the praises of Franklin Graham, presumably one of the unnamed people of faith she tries to paint as "quoted out of context." That's especially surprising choice on her part when Mr. Graham has been one of this country's most active ministers when it comes to demonizing fellow Americans who happen to be LGBT. Reverend Graham the Younger has worked unceasingly to create or legislate forms of second-class citizenship for Americans he disapproves of at both the state and federal level. It is very much who he is in word and deed, so there isn't much to take out of context. Does the evil he works to achieve to deliberately hurt many erase other good works he might do to benefit others? We might generously note that he does both equally and leave it at that.



I kind of doubt she supports Franklin Graham's frequent vitriol. But it's almost inevitable that Samaritan's Purse would come up in any discussion of this type, because they are such a big charity. When we got an email from the head of our firm about places to donate for Harvey, it was on the list. After some research, I realized he was involved with it, which chose me to choose a different organization to donate to. It's probably fair to say that there are a lot of other people involved with the charity such that there is little danger that money being used for any purpose other than relief efforts, but I can certainly understand the reluctance to use that particular charity - that's why I didn't after all. I think we should be careful, however, to paint the whole charity with Franklin Graham.


Now you have me wondering: rebuilding after Harvey will require how many goats?


A baker's dozen?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Leighton
England
Peterborough
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
remorseless1 wrote:
Everyone here has probably seen my posts about how I intensely distrust organized religion.

That being said, I live in a tiny village (2000 people). Every church here put together money, water, diapers, non-perishable food, sun screen, etc., shoved it all into two semi trailers, and drove it down to Houston two days after the storm finally moved east. They're doing the same thing for Florida, Georgia, and the islands in the Gulf. We can grip legitimately about the leaders and loudmouthed publically pious assholes, but most people are sincere in their beliefs and are trying to help.


Yep but are such small efforts actually worthwhile - other than as salves for consciences? How do they work out who is in most need? I imagine that a few hundred (or thousand) trailers turning up giving out supplies as they see fit is somewhat inefficient as a delivery mechanism. Or do they give it out to some larger coordinating charity at the sharp end? In which case wouldn't it be better to cut out the middle man?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
andyl wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Everyone here has probably seen my posts about how I intensely distrust organized religion.

That being said, I live in a tiny village (2000 people). Every church here put together money, water, diapers, non-perishable food, sun screen, etc., shoved it all into two semi trailers, and drove it down to Houston two days after the storm finally moved east. They're doing the same thing for Florida, Georgia, and the islands in the Gulf. We can grip legitimately about the leaders and loudmouthed publically pious assholes, but most people are sincere in their beliefs and are trying to help.


Yep but are such small efforts actually worthwhile - other than as salves for consciences? How do they work out who is in most need? I imagine that a few hundred (or thousand) trailers turning up giving out supplies as they see fit is somewhat inefficient as a delivery mechanism. Or do they give it out to some larger coordinating charity at the sharp end? In which case wouldn't it be better to cut out the middle man?


You need to count the fair value of labor.

I worked ~70 hours on flooded houses since harvey. So about $1000+ worth of work (perhaps as much as $1400 to have it done professionally).

One house i worked had 10 guys from louisiana, most religious and probably all from the same parish if not the same church.

My atheist soninlaw helped rebuild houses thru his church after katrina. Roofs ($7000), walls, floors, rewiring.

Dont overestimate it but dont underestimate what it would cost to pay people to do the work. Even minimum wage to do door greeting at shelters.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.