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878: Vikings – Invasions of England» Forums » General

Subject: Who's Winning? Ideas about game balence rss

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Bob Williams
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I am curious. What is everyone finding about game balance? In your experience with the game does does one side seem to have an edge, or does it appear to be well balanced?
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Matt S
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We played four times and Vikings have won every time. We are both strong war game players but it's still too early to say that the Vikings have the edge. Soon we will switch sides.
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Peter Bogdasarian
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Vikings could not keep a leader alive in our first game and the Saxons won when the last truce card was played at the end of turn 6.
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Matt Helms
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Played twice, 2 English wins - one by treaty after 5 rounds, one by treaty after 6 rounds. I played a different side each time.
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Greg Haupert
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Played three times. One English blowout, one Viking blowout, and one close English victory that came down to who had the last turn.
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Barry Miller
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Ah... the constant call for game balance. Examining game balance is fine - and surely a conversation to be had when the balance proves to be broken. But in my humble, unsolicited opinion, such conversations shouldn't be had until there's enough "data" to support the conversation.

If I were "King for a day", I'd decree that any player who provides such data for any game (i.e., wins, losses, sides played, rules used, etc) should ideally have played at least one familiarization game. Then, play three games on each side (seven games total for a two player game). And ideally against different players for each game.

Then, after that, you can have a seat at the table to talk about game balance issues.

Though I'm not holding my breath for being "King for a day".


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Christopher Wood
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Quote:
not holding my breath for being "King for a day".

It's late, so ... I'll give ya what's left of it anyway.
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Chris
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The greatest political storm flutters only a fringe of humanity. But an ordinary man and an ordinary woman and their ordinary children literally alter the destiny of nations. - GK Chesterton
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2 Viking wins, 3 English wins. Seems fine so far!
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Rick Thomas
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Same result (as
(jormungandr) in our first game. The English are not pushovers. And that epic battle card "traitors", is nasty!
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Bill H
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My 4 games have been an even split. I haven't played with any expansion content yet.
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Reed Dawley
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doverboy wrote:
My 4 games have been an even split. I haven't played with any expansion content yet.


My findings are different, I have played two games and the vikings lost both, English are obviously overpowered. Let us ignore the fact that my opponent is a better strategy gamer than I, that it is two data points and I trust academy games to balance a game. That's all sarcastic, of course, it felt balanced to me. I can pinpoint what I should have done differently and anytime dice are out there is going to be some swings, but they should average out in the long run.

Enter the blender, 5 axe rolls on a Fyrd!
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Shadi Khoja
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One game so far and a close English win by pushing the treaty through on round 5. Vikings were only one shire short of victory.
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uwe eickert
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If my opinion matters, I have played and seen hundreds of Vikings games played. Seems balanced to me. Though I somehow lose no matter who I play as

Gunter
Academy Games
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Paul Schroeder

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We're on game 5 right now. So far
Vanilla mode: 2 Win English, 1 Win Viking
Churches (but with normal treaty win condition): 1 Win Viking, 1 game in progress, Leaning towards English win.
 
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Steven Townshend
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I finally played a whole game BY THE RULES. My previous 3 attempts were either incomplete or playing by wrong rules that had a major impact on the game.

As the sole English player against two Viking players, it felt pretty tense. The Vikings took territory and lost it. The English were slaughtered before the Viking hordes. The game went 7 rounds and the control markers kept going back and forth of the 9 city mark. It came down to who had the final turn. The English were able to take the 9th city away from the Vikings but it would have gone differently had the Vikings gone last, attacked a different (weaker) coast, or any number of tiny other things. The balance for our game was on a razor's edge. Alfred's entire army being defeated by a lone Norseman was rough as well.

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Paul Schroeder

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@Drammattex - What rules did you play wrong?
 
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Steven Townshend
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Reimius wrote:
@Drammattex - What rules did you play wrong?


- On the first play there was some confusion between the Leader Phase and Movement Phase. Thus, Viking leaders would move and take their turns. Then, on the Movement Phase, armies that had been with the leader were allowed to move. Whoops. They can't do that.

- Viking reinforcements: Vikings fled units can be placed on leaders or COASTAL cities occupied by the Vikings; the Viking leader reinforcement card in the B deck allows Vikings to be placed on any coastal shire (or leader) the Vikings occupy, not just on coastal cities. There were times in game 2 in which the Vikings didn't have a coastal city and were placing fled unit reinforcements in coastal shires occupied by the Vikings. Restricting the Viking reinforcements to leaders and coastal cities means that the Vikings need to hold those cities rather than spreading themselves extremely thin.

- Fyrd reshuffle. We did not reshuffle Fyrd in the first play. Because we had the movement rules confused, battles happened all the time and the Fyrd deck was exhausted even faster than normal. This made the English virtually defenseless from round 5 on, once most of their reinforcement cities had been taken. It wasn't fun.

Those are the main rules that we played incorrectly. I know 1775 and 1754 well, but none of these elements exists in those games so they were particulars to be learned.

There is still some question as to who won last night's game. When I counted Viking control markers I thought I needed to take back 3, but I had been looking at trying to get to the other side of the colored 9 city icon on the board. On the final turn I (the English) took back 2 because the Treaty of Wedmore card for the Thegns allows 2 armies to move. I took back 2 cities. Not until the marker I took covered up the 9 city icon did I realize that I had only needed to cover that icon, not surpass it. I guess this is what happens when you're relying on that track rather than actually counting cities. In the light of day, however, I'm trying to remember whether my army defeated Guthrum, and where he was on the board, and whether the Vikings neglected to remove a marker from the track; they had every city in Wessex and East Anglia (7) and at least one in Mercia (8) but did they actually have two (9?). When we finished the game it all seemed right, but nobody stopped to check. I wouldn't think about it except that it was so extremely close.

Anyway, playing by the rules made for a very close game.

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Paul Schroeder

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Thanks for the information, just wanted to verify I wasn't currently making similar mistakes and not even knowing. The only one we messed up on the first game was in the particulars of the "command" option when rolling dice. We thought units could only command move if the destination shire had already contained a unit of the same color, when the rule actually states the same side.
 
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Steven Townshend
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^ Oh yes, that's different from 1775 but not different from 1754, iirc.
 
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