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Subject: Sticker questions rss

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Vanda Paladino
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Can someone explain to me how Druidic and Circle of the Land work?

Do you need 2 people with Druidic for it to do anything? Does Circle of the Land just change your class? Does it change your color too?

Also what's up with Fundamentals? Isn't having more basic cards bad? Why would I pay Xperia for that?
 
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raynbow wrote:
Can someone explain to me how Druidic and Circle of the Land work?

Do you need 2 people with Druidic for it to do anything? Does Circle of the Land just change your class? Does it change your color too?

Also what's up with Fundamentals? Isn't having more basic cards bad? Why would I pay Xperia for that?


One person speaking Druidic is useless.

If TWO people at the table speak Druidic, each may play one card on the other's turn as an Assist. Forever and always.

Same thing with Thieves Cant.


Circle of the Land looks like it allows a Druid to be something else, and balance out their equipment pack when doing so. I suspect this is something that two dedicated players would do to divvy up the roles a bit more - which is also when Druidic would come into strong play.


Fundamentals - same Feature as in SRDC and I never took it there either. There is one time when more cards is better though, and that's when you have a strong recursive theme going. In SRDC the Decker benefitted from a larger deck to slow down their reshuffles. With cards like "Jacked In" and "Retreival Agent" long discards were very useful. I don't know how much of that exists in DF, and how much Feature Support it might require. Fundamentals can also help balance out a two or three person party that's short on one of the colors.
 
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Steven LaGorce
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I am not thinking very highly of Thieves cant or druidic. The main use for assists is to play a color someone else can't. Which will not happen much when both players are the same color. It would allow you to sort of play it forward though. When you buy a card, you could play it on the other players turn instead of on your next turn.

Maybe if you are already planning on taking two of one of these classes, it would be ok.
 
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Vanda Paladino
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So wouldn't you have to have more than 4 people playing to even use Druidic, since you have to have two druids.
 
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raynbow wrote:
So wouldn't you have to have more than 4 people playing to even use Druidic, since you have to have two druids.


If the rules state that the first 4 characters must be different roles, yes.

Unless one of those Druids is a Druid of the Land, which would make them not a 'Devotion' class but something else.

 
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Vanda Paladino
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Could they even have Druidic if they were no longer a Druid?
 
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raynbow wrote:
Could they even have Druidic if they were no longer a Druid?


DRUID is written on the character sheet. How would they stop being a Druid?

Feature "Druid of the Land" lets them pick another character class that they act as, but they're still a Druid.
 
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Vanda Paladino
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byronczimmer wrote:
raynbow wrote:
Could they even have Druidic if they were no longer a Druid?


DRUID is written on the character sheet. How would they stop being a Druid?

Feature "Druid of the Land" lets them pick another character class that they act as, but they're still a Druid.


They would stop being a Druid because the sticker could easily be read that they change classes instead of adding an additional class.

And there's no need to be snotty.
 
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Barry
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byronczimmer put it in the right context. Thieves Cant and Druidic are good for multiple characters to balance out unbalanced classes. A group that regularly plays 2 player could benefit from this (also 3 players) to add assists. Another route is if you have a larger party but it tends to be lopsided in 1 color it might allow some folks to fill the missing roles more easily by playing their off-color cards out of turn when needed more easily.
 
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Vanda Paladino
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Nachofan wrote:
byronczimmer put it in the right context. Thieves Cant and Druidic are good for multiple characters to balance out unbalanced classes. A group that regularly plays 2 player could benefit from this (also 3 players) to add assists. Another route is if you have a larger party but it tends to be lopsided in 1 color it might allow some folks to fill the missing roles more easily by playing their off-color cards out of turn when needed more easily.


I'm jumping on this because we play 2 player, and that's what we're struggling with right now. In order to use Druidic or Thieves Cant we'd both have to be starting as Druids or Rogues. Can you even do that in a 2 player game? I thought you had to have two different classes and then each take a class token of a second color. If we're both playing green, would one of us have to take 2 class color tokens and be 3 different colors?
 
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Michael Kindt Dalzen
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I think Druidic and Thieves Cant are going to be more useful in large parties (5-6 players) when you have 2 players of at least one class. If both your Devotion players roll Druids or both your Deception players roll Rogues, you can select these Features to give added Assist power.
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Quote:
And there's no need to be snotty.

This first.
I'm sorry if the tone came across wrong, but an all text environment can make it difficult to express some feelings. No offense was intended, I hope you accept that. I'm trying very hard to help you enjoy this title, and you seem to be interested in doing so. Lets continue to assume we both have good intentions. Thank you.


To the question:

raynbow wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
raynbow wrote:
Could they even have Druidic if they were no longer a Druid?


DRUID is written on the character sheet. How would they stop being a Druid?

Feature "Druid of the Land" lets them pick another character class that they act as, but they're still a Druid.


They would stop being a Druid because the sticker could easily be read that they change classes instead of adding an additional class.


First, it's possible there's some clarification in any extra materials in the Character pack concerning the Feature "Circle of the Land". I don't have rule book access yet, so am doing the best I can. If there's something in there, please share it.

Otherwise... There are multiple examples of "Dual Classing" available in the sticker sheets.


Clerics can choose "War Domain" and also count as MARTIAL (-GREEN (optional), +BLACK)
Fighters can choose "Eldritch Knight" and also count as ARCANE (-BLACK, +BLUE)
Rogues can choose "Arcane Trickster" and also count as ARCANE (-RED, +BLUE)
Bards can choose "College of Valor" and also count as MARTIAL (-ANY, +BLACK)

and finally...

Druids can choose "Circle of the Land" which lets them pick another Class, (-GREEN, +CHOICE).

Edit, March 12, 2018 (this clause is no longer conventional wisdom):
It's not well stated, probably due to space limitations, but it's clear to me that if a Druid picks "Circle of the Land" they gain an additional class type (MARTIAL/DECEPTION/ARCANE) in a way similar to the other 'dual class' options above.
The Druid, by gaining a 'Chosen Class', is more effective against that class by swapping in a Basic card of that color. Later Features allow additional damage/effects to be done to the chosen Class.

Back to topic, how do two people get Druidic at the table?
a/ 5 or 6 Players, two playing Druids.

b/ Two players leveling up Druids independently, at least one taking "Circle of the Land", and then playing 2 player where the "Circle/Land" taking on a primary role that isn't green.

(This assumes that the rules require one of each role... if they don't, then two Druids could play together if they wanted from the start.)
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Vanda Paladino
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Your interpretation makes more sense, it's just not what I initially assumed. I hadn't seen the other multiclass characters, I have only read through the sticker sheets pertinent to me, not all of them.

I also can't remember if the rules specifically say you have to have one of each class, I feel like it's at least implied. But I'll have to re-read that part tonight.

I know in the two player rules it definitely says that each player has to take an additional color marker to indicate that they are both their primary color, and another color. So I think if both players started as the same color, one of them would have to essentially be 3 different colors. Between that and the handicap of both being heavy in green and light in everything else, I think the disadvantages would outweigh the advantages of going for Druidic in a 2 player only game.

What we are going to try is playing with 4 characters and seeing if we can get through, or at least get closer, that way.
 
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raynbow wrote:
Your interpretation makes more sense, it's just not what I initially assumed. I hadn't seen the other multiclass characters, I have only read through the sticker sheets pertinent to me, not all of them.

I also can't remember if the rules specifically say you have to have one of each class, I feel like it's at least implied. But I'll have to re-read that part tonight.

I know in the two player rules it definitely says that each player has to take an additional color marker to indicate that they are both their primary color, and another color. So I think if both players started as the same color, one of them would have to essentially be 3 different colors. Between that and the handicap of both being heavy in green and light in everything else, I think the disadvantages would outweigh the advantages of going for Druidic in a 2 player only game.

I concur with your analysis for a strict 2 player game.

Druidic/ThievesCant would be hard to get rolling with two players. A strong color spread would be much more beneficial when starting out than the glut of green that x2 Druids, or the glut of red that x2 Thieves would present.

I suspect that these 'pairing' Features are better in 5-6 player games as daskindt suggests. That's unfortunate, and generic 'synergy' stickers would be cool, like "Siblings" or "Psychically Linked". We don't have those, so we move on in search of other solutions.


Quote:
What we are going to try is playing with 4 characters and seeing if we can get through, or at least get closer, that way.

Part of me is happy you're trying 2 player / 4 characters.
Another part of me isn't, because I'm *also* invested in making this work straight 2-player because like you, my wife and I play together and are looking forward to the experience. We've duo'd SR:CF characters up to about 30 XP each and were hoping the 2-Player mode in DF would be workable.

You've certainly helped me to focus effort on trying to get through this campaign as a pairing. I thank you for that.
 
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Vanda Paladino
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There's a whole 'nother thread about this, but, yeaaaah, we're finding it kind of unplayable without a whole TON of luck as a 2 player.
 
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SR:CF has a very steep learning curve too, but my wife and I crossed that hurdle. Once we got good at it, we never felt the game was "unfair", though we got a bad beat periodically.

I'm hoping the token-swarm problem is solvable.
 
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Vanda Paladino
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Yeah I've gotten alot of advice but most of it is either stuff we're already doing, or is basically 'draw better market cards'. I'm starting to feel like we're terminally unlucky....

But it sort of makes sense, you cycle a lot more cards with 4 characters than with 2, so you'd have a higher probability of getting up those token killing cards.
 
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raynbow wrote:
Yeah I've gotten alot of advice but most of it is either stuff we're already doing, or is basically 'draw better market cards'. I'm starting to feel like we're terminally unlucky....

But it sort of makes sense, you cycle a lot more cards with 4 characters than with 2, so you'd have a higher probability of getting up those token killing cards.


I think you said you're at 10XP... Maybe one of you buys a "Caravan" which lets you cycle 6 cards quickly if the Market isn't being overly helpful.

6 of 60 (6 of 65 with the Druid) cards is a good chunk if the Market isn't giving you something you want.
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David Heth
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___________________________________________
Circle of the Land
Requires Druid Class
Permanently choose a Class Type to be your Chosen Type: _______ .
Equipment Pack: You must remove one (D) card and add one Basic card of the Chosen Type.
___________________________________________


I am also confused when I read this feature.
Is "Chosen Type" referring to the Druid of the Land Feature or the Class Type on the Character Screen.

I think it is referring to the Class Type on the Character Screen. There is just too much happening with this feature to properly explain it on the small amount of space given on the feature stickers. I have not seen an official FAQ clarifying it yet.

Also if "Requires Devotion" features existed you not longer be able to use them after changing your Class Type

Additionally you have the option of choosing the Devotion Class Type making this Feature a complete waste of XP
 
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D_Heth wrote:
___________________________________________
Circle of the Land
Requires Druid Class
Permanently choose a Class Type to be your Chosen Type: _______ .
Equipment Pack: You must remove one (D) card and add one Basic card of the Chosen Type.
___________________________________________


I am also confused when I read this feature.
Is "Chosen Type" referring to the Druid of the Land Feature or the Class Type on the Character Screen.

It is the class type you write in the underline.

Quote:
I think it is referring to the Class Type on the Character Screen. There is just too much happening with this feature to properly explain it on the small amount of space given on the feature stickers. I have not seen an official FAQ clarifying it yet.

Also if "Requires Devotion" features existed you not longer be able to use them after changing your Class Type

Nothing says you stop being Devotion

Quote:
Additionally you have the option of choosing the Devotion Class Type making this Feature a complete waste of XP

Is it? It Nature's Sanctuary Features might say otherwise.


___

I'm not so convinced any more that Circle of the Land causes a Class Type change/addition, since the words "You also count as (ICON) type" never appear on the Feature". A clause like that appears on other subclass features like Fighter: Eldritch Knight or Deception: Arcane Trickster.

 
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Principia

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Circle of the Land is not equivalent to Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster, et al., but rather the Ranger's Favored Enemy Feature.

For both CotL and FE, you have to make a permanent choice of what kind of encounters you want to be able to, well, beat up more easily. Druids pick one Class Type, and Rangers pick one non-Humanoid Encounter Type (for FE).

Circle of the Land does not convey a change in or supplement to a Druid's Class Type.
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Principia wrote:
Circle of the Land is not equivalent to Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster, et al., but rather the Ranger's Favored Enemy Feature.

For both CotL and FE, you have to make a permanent choice of what kind of encounters you want to be able to, well, beat up more easily. Druids pick one Class Type, and Rangers pick one non-Humanoid Encounter Type (for FE).

Circle of the Land does not convey a change in or supplement to a Druid's Class Type.


Prin knows the Features backwards and forwards, and has more eloquently put what I was trying to say above.

Originally, when we only had partial information, and the original poster was trying to find ways to make a 2p Druid viable, we thought that Circle of the Land might change or augment the Druid's class type.

But in the end, Circle of the Land just makes the Druid tougher and more effective against 25% of the encounters, based on the chosen color.
 
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