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Fabled Fruit» Forums » Rules

Subject: Draw with no available fruits rss

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Danniel Alcantara
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We just finished our first "season" of Fabled Fruit, playing until the 59th location was revealed. Towards the latter games we would often end up with all the fruit cards in our hands (five players) or in the market (we had locations 41 and 49 out, very hopeful players, and terrible luck).

We would find ourselves with game states where both the draw pile and discard pile was empty:
1) How to perform draw actions in cases like this?
2) Are locations that cause you to draw just considered as blank?

What about having a small amount of cards in the draw pile (example 2), what happens for the following locations:
3) 41 - Reveal 5 fruit
4) 49 - Restocking fruit pair to draw 4 cards
5) 54 - Deal <player_count> fruits, take 2, others take 1
6) 56 - Draw <player_count> fruits, give 1 to others.

We just decided to ignore the draw-pile related locations when there weren't enough fruits to fulfill the action (even partially).

Thanks in advance

(Fixed grammar)
 
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Russ Williams
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I don't know the answer to the rule question, though I'd suppose that it's a common convention in most card games that if the deck has insufficiently many cards to draw, then you simply draw as many as possible (which could be zero if the deck is completely empty).

But FWIW I think strategically it's an error to amass such a huge hand of fruits instead of simply using your big hand to make juices and win... We had a few fruit-rich games like that, and found that typically the winner was the one who started making juices instead of being caught with a huge rich hand but insufficient number of turns left to actually spend their hand making juices. (But I see you were playing 5-player, while we played 2- and 3- so I don't know for sure.)
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Mark L
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I tend to agree with Russ - although I've also only played with 2 and 3, and I haven't come close to finishing a campaign.

If the cards are being hoarded by players, that's really down to them. They should probably stop hoarding and get buying!

If the problem is that loads of cards are stuck in the market, that's a little trickier. But again, why are the players allowing that to happen?

I guess there could be cards in play that add fruits to the market, but few or none that allow them to be taken from it. In that case it might be worth saying that if you run out of fruits to draw the market should be emptied to provide a new draw pile. But I suspect that just keeping your focus on making juices quickly should fix that problem anyway.
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Danniel Alcantara
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Thanks for the replies. I think I'll follow Russ' suggestion of draw as many as possible. This makes the other locations still active or partially active, but just not as useful.

For the latter discussion, the game state wasn't caused by any intentional hoarding (that people would admit to), but when we got to the last pattern of locations (50+), even with a hand of 12 cards, a person is only about 23% likely to be able to complete a juice pattern (a bit of napkin math with hypergeometric probabilities).

We also ended up with no locations that allowed us to "profitably" get cards from the market; and a couple of locations that would draw us at least 2 cards but resulted with adding 2 or more cards into the market. Hence the market would grow to a "black hole".

The game was still really interesting without a draw pile because of the interactions created by the other locations. It just reached a slower grindy "trading card" phase. It did result in an epic ending though so maybe thats what the designers intended.
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Marek Oldak
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Hi. I don’t know if I understood you correctly, but this is pretty cleary stated in glossart (location 1) - if there is no or not enough cards in stack, discard pile should be shuffled and placed as the new stack of fruit cards.
 
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Trevor Schadt
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oduck wrote:
Hi. I don’t know if I understood you correctly, but this is pretty cleary stated in glossart (location 1) - if there is no or not enough cards in stack, discard pile should be shuffled and placed as the new stack of fruit cards.
Marek,

The question was what happens when both the draw pile and the discard pile are empty.
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Marek Oldak
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ahhh, right! sorry!
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