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Subject: Australian same-sex marriage survey rss

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J J
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Well, it turned up in the post today (and is already on its way back). Anyone else got theirs yet?
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Andy Leighton
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JasonJ0 wrote:
Well, it turned up in the post today (and is already on its way back). Anyone else got theirs yet?


You have to wait until November for the results - why does it take so long?

The entire survey is voluntary and non-binding anyway, it is a glorified opinion poll, but the mood of the public is pretty well known on this (from other polling). It just shows how weak the government is in Australia that Turnbull can't just introduce a same-sex marriage bill due to the strong anti-sentiment of a chunk of his coalition.
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J J
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andyl wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
Well, it turned up in the post today (and is already on its way back). Anyone else got theirs yet?


You have to wait until November for the results - why does it take so long?

The entire survey is voluntary and non-binding anyway, it is a glorified opinion poll, but the mood of the public is pretty well known on this (from other polling). It just shows how weak the government is in Australia that Turnbull can't just introduce a same-sex marriage bill due to the strong anti-sentiment of a chunk of his coalition.


Well yes. That one of the Liberal party's most senior and influential members for the past several decades routinely and without criticism makes the claim that tolerating homosexuality will lead directly to bestiality says it all. And the Labor party is really no better. We have parliaments full of vile born-to-rule swill that cares not for what the population experiences or wants.

It baffles me. Australia is even less religious than the UK, and even the majority of those who are still religious don't really have an issue with this stuff any more (as you say, we have plenty of polls that prove it). The only ones who do are a lunatic fringe who spend all their time screaming hate; and yet both major parties appear to be utterly beholden to this tiny group of zealots. Fuck knows why - it isn't as though they have any influence on voters as is the case in the US.
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So it's the Pauline Hansons of Australia opposed to this, right? (and of course Tony Abbott)
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wifwendell wrote:
So it's the Pauline Hansons of Australia opposed to this, right? (and of course Tony Abbott)

Yep. The postal vote was originally Abbott's policy, as a way of kicking the can down the road. Now Turnbull is forging ahead with it on the basis that Abbott can't object to his own idea.

The major parties have both been pissweak on this. Gillard or Rudd or Turnbull could easily have passed gay marriage with crossbench support. Or it could have been a referendum question at the last feceral election. Instead we get this expensive yet non-compulsory thingo.

(Mine hasn't turned up yet.)
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J J
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wifwendell wrote:
So it's the Pauline Hansons of Australia opposed to this, right? (and of course Tony Abbott)


Well...

Mostly yes. But then you get people who are still hung up on trangender and the concept of a spectrum rather than a duality. What's this got to do with same-sex marriage?

Absolutely nothing, usually, except...

About the same time the survey was really big in the news, there was someone talking about transgender issues in a rather preachy way (or at least they came off as preachy after talk-radio had its go), which managed to get up a bunch of noses.

And some of those noses, I have no idea how many, have decided on "Yeah? Well up yours, and stuff yer marriage equality too". Yes, I have heard this reactionary spiteful shite in person.
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My survey arrived yesterday. It's already on its way back.

d10-7d10-2d10-9d10-5d10-3d10-6
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sbszine wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
So it's the Pauline Hansons of Australia opposed to this, right? (and of course Tony Abbott)

Yep. The postal vote was originally Abbott's policy, as a way of kicking the can down the road. Now Turnbull is forging ahead with it on the basis that Abbott can't object to his own idea.

The major parties have both been pissweak on this. Gillard or Rudd or Turnbull could easily have passed gay marriage with crossbench support. Or it could have been a referendum question at the last feceral election. Instead we get this expensive yet non-compulsory thingo.

Well it wouldn't have been Gillard she was (still is?) anti. Rudd used to be anti but has reversed but still seems luke-warm. At least Labour have a leadership now that supports SSM - Shorten and Plibersek voted Yes in 2012.
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Gillard's policy was anti but I don't think Gillard was anti (it was to appease factions). Same as Turnbull on climate change, Plibersek on refugees, etc. Political expediency instead of leadership.
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J J
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sbszine wrote:
Gillard's policy was anti but I don't think Gillard was anti (it was to appease factions). Same as Turnbull on climate change, Plibersek on refugees, etc. Political expediency instead of leadership.


And there's why they all deserve nothing but scorn. Vile hypocrites the lot. Can't have power and follow your own principles? Then let the power go. But no, the power is what they are all about, and their principles can go hang (because this isn't about compromise, this is about acting directly against their alleged principles).
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JasonJ0 wrote:
Well, it turned up in the post today (and is already on its way back). Anyone else got theirs yet?


I imagine many married people have the same kind of sex as most other married couples.
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J J
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maxo-texas wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
Well, it turned up in the post today (and is already on its way back). Anyone else got theirs yet?


I imagine many married people have the same kind of sex as most other married couples.


You might very well think so, I couldn't possibly comment.

Anyway, we don't need to imagine any more, that's what the survey is for
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Mac Mcleod
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JasonJ0 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
Well, it turned up in the post today (and is already on its way back). Anyone else got theirs yet?


I imagine many married people have the same kind of sex as most other married couples.


You might very well think so, I couldn't possibly comment.

Anyway, we don't need to imagine any more, that's what the survey is for


I imagine so.
 
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sbszine wrote:
Gillard's policy was anti but I don't think Gillard was anti (it was to appease factions). Same as Turnbull on climate change, Plibersek on refugees, etc. Political expediency instead of leadership.


Not just policy, she voted against the private members bill (despite it being a free vote on the Labour side) and spoke against same-sex marriage numerous times. But yep I see she has publicly reversed her stance and has some colleagues who think that her anti-position was always a front.

Whilst for some policies there is wiggle room for expediency - how tough the government should be on refugees, crime, how to handle climate change, etc - same-sex marriage seems a straight up conscience issue which should be fairly straightforward.

 
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I guess things in Australian politics aren't as bad as Israel where a politician has had to resign after attending his nephew's same-sex marriage.

The politician is Yigal Guetta who is part of the ultra-Orthodox Shas Party (apparently under extreme pressure from a group of rabbis). In an interview he made it clear that he still believes same-sex marriage* is forbidden by his religion, but had attended for his family's sake.

* Not that it is likely that Israel will get same-sex marriage any time soon as they don't have civil marriage.
 
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What pisses my off about the conservative side of the debate is the constant references about how it will impact on 'families' and some of the really awful stuff bein turned into posters about the supposed effects of same sex parenting on children.

This is despite the fact it's been perfectly legal for same sex couples to adopt children for quite a while, but NOW it's a life or death issue for the right. The hypocrisy is ridiculous. And having actual government members say that the debate has been civilised and the anyone offended by comments from the right needs to 'grow a spine'. Thanks Matt Canavan, it must be easy when you're a white hetrosexual, and you don't have a whole section of the public telling you you're somehow a lesser person for your sexual orientation.
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NB Aussies: if uploading pics of your survey form, hide/omit the barcode and ID.
Faked duplicate forms could be used to invalidate your response.
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J J
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Ozludo wrote:
NB Aussies: if uploading pics of your survey form, hide/omit the barcode and ID.
Faked duplicate forms could be used to invalidate your response.


Gotta say I wasn't entirely impressed by the accompanying letter stating "To make sure your response counts, please make sure you do not use any envelope other than the one enclosed."

Apart from it not counting any-bloody-way (because idiot politicians as discussed above), why on earth is the supplied postage-paid envelope critical to it counting?
 
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andyl wrote:
Not just policy, she voted against the private members bill (despite it being a free vote on the Labour side) and spoke against same-sex marriage numerous times. But yep I see she has publicly reversed her stance and has some colleagues who think that her anti-position was always a front.

Whilst for some policies there is wiggle room for expediency - how tough the government should be on refugees, crime, how to handle climate change, etc - same-sex marriage seems a straight up conscience issue which should be fairly straightforward.

It should be, yes. The major parties here have fundamentalist Christian factions that even athiests like Turnbull & Gillard must bow and scrape to.
 
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I own Abbott Laboratories stock, and since I linked my finances into my newsfeed, the keyword hits send lots of Australian news my way.

From an outsider looking in, this has been so full of WTF, perhaps summarized as "Dude, I thought Australia was cool!"

When SSM marriage hit here a few years back, there was no great disturbance in the Force. Life went on. Certain legal protections and obligations were afforded to a small slice of the population that deserved access to them. The downside? Teeth were gnashed by people who are generally best ignored, and various Gov't forms had to be amended and reprinted. The end.

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The majority of nearly every demographic in Australia supports same sex marriage but there are enough politicians in a party that is barely in power to ruin everything.

There are jurisdictions where the vast majority support SSM but their local politician is against. It's both bizarre and frustrating.

It's also non binding as opposition parties blocked referendums or even plebiscites (both require compulsory participation by citizens in Australia) on the basis that basic human rights should just be granted and not put to a vote and to also prevent hateful and hurtful anti gay debates.

The government got around this by putting out a survey from the Bureau of Statistics rather than use the electoral commission.

It's all one big fuck up.
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JoshBot wrote:
I own Abbott Laboratories stock, and since I linked my finances into my newsfeed, the keyword hits send lots of Australian news my way.

From an outsider looking in, this has been so full of WTF, perhaps summarized as "Dude, I thought Australia was cool!"

Ah right! It would be like if I had invested in Gingrich Logistics. Or Trump anything. Multiple levels of bewilderment and regret.
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sbszine wrote:
JoshBot wrote:
I own Abbott Laboratories stock, and since I linked my finances into my newsfeed, the keyword hits send lots of Australian news my way.

From an outsider looking in, this has been so full of WTF, perhaps summarized as "Dude, I thought Australia was cool!"

Ah right! It would be like if I had invested in Gingrich Logistics. Or Trump anything. Multiple levels of bewilderment and regret.
It's very reassuring to see a familiar quantity of clusterfuckage. Let's all link arms and sing Depeche Mode together!

"People are people so why should it be..."
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People are now tweeting that they have received additional copies of the survey (in personally addressed envelopes). The whole process is a tribute to the nation. wow
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JasonJ0 wrote:
andyl wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
Well, it turned up in the post today (and is already on its way back). Anyone else got theirs yet?


You have to wait until November for the results - why does it take so long?

The entire survey is voluntary and non-binding anyway, it is a glorified opinion poll, but the mood of the public is pretty well known on this (from other polling). It just shows how weak the government is in Australia that Turnbull can't just introduce a same-sex marriage bill due to the strong anti-sentiment of a chunk of his coalition.


Well yes. That one of the Liberal party's most senior and influential members for the past several decades routinely and without criticism makes the claim that tolerating homosexuality will lead directly to bestiality says it all. And the Labor party is really no better. We have parliaments full of vile born-to-rule swill that cares not for what the population experiences or wants.

It baffles me. Australia is even less religious than the UK, and even the majority of those who are still religious don't really have an issue with this stuff any more (as you say, we have plenty of polls that prove it). The only ones who do are a lunatic fringe who spend all their time screaming hate; and yet both major parties appear to be utterly beholden to this tiny group of zealots. Fuck knows why - it isn't as though they have any influence on voters as is the case in the US.


SSM was legalized here in Ontario back in 2003, and society has survived just fine. Ok, with just a bit of mandatory bestiality.
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