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The Napoleonic Wars (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Descent from the Sea rss

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Kurt Lambert

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Text on card: "Place one unit and a flag ... in any unoccupied enemy Port of any Zone controlled by this nation's camp".
Does unoccupied refer to land units, only or doe squadrons qualify as well?
Example:
a French squadron is being blockaded in Rotterdam but there is no land unit in that port.
Can the Brits play this card and flag?
And if so, does that force the French squadron to put out to sea immediately? (13.9)
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Jason Johns
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Ahasver wrote:
Text on card: "Place one unit and a flag ... in any unoccupied enemy Port of any Zone controlled by this nation's camp".
Does unoccupied refer to land units, only or doe squadrons qualify as well?
Example:
a French squadron is being blockaded in Rotterdam but there is no land unit in that port.
Can the Brits play this card and flag?
And if so, does that force the French squadron to put out to sea immediately? (13.9)


From a "just thinking about it" point of view, it wouldn't make sense to be able to flag with ships there.

Looking at the definition of Port under duchy it says that it can be occupied by a Fleet/squadron. However, under the definition of forces it says that leaders, flags and troops are "forces" while squadrons are not.

So, I'm not sure. You'll have to get a more official answer. Sorry.
 
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Daniel Blumentritt
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It's not official, but I'm pretty sure Jason is right. Unoccupied means completely and literally unoccupied.
 
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Kurt Lambert

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Thank you for your feedback
 
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Kurt Lambert

New York
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iamspamus wrote:
Ahasver wrote:
Text on card: "Place one unit and a flag ... in any unoccupied enemy Port of any Zone controlled by this nation's camp".
Does unoccupied refer to land units, only or doe squadrons qualify as well?
Example:
a French squadron is being blockaded in Rotterdam but there is no land unit in that port.
Can the Brits play this card and flag?
And if so, does that force the French squadron to put out to sea immediately? (13.9)


From a "just thinking about it" point of view, it wouldn't make sense to be able to flag with ships there.

Looking at the definition of Port under duchy it says that it can be occupied by a Fleet/squadron. However, under the definition of forces it says that leaders, flags and troops are "forces" while squadrons are not.

So, I'm not sure. You'll have to get a more official answer. Sorry.

Thank you for your feedback. Our reasoning runs along these lines:
i) Rotterdam is a duchy with a port, not just a port
ii) if you were going to send an army into Rotterdam there would be no fight as there is nobody to fight against
iii) an army cannot fight a squadron and once the army enters the squadron will have to put out to sea immediately

Does that sound reasonable?
 
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Eric Alexopoulos
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Ahasver wrote:

Thank you for your feedback. Our reasoning runs along these lines:
i) Rotterdam is a duchy with a port, not just a port
ii) if you were going to send an army into Rotterdam there would be no fight as there is nobody to fight against
iii) an army cannot fight a squadron and once the army enters the squadron will have to put out to sea immediately

Does that sound reasonable?


Actually, an army cannot make an amphibious assault against a port which contains a squadron. Refer to section 13.71. The squadron must be eliminated first by naval combat.

Armies which amph assault a port still must survive the port guns regardless if there are defending units. Also it is possible for an adjacent army to intercept an army making an amph assault. Because of the interception, a force amph assaulting may find itself in a fight when it wasn't expecting one.

Squadrons are put out to sea when an enemy force flags the duchy. This occurs when an enemy army attacks the port via land connection, not an amph assault. However, 'Descent From the Sea' would fall under amph assault.

Hope this clears things up for you.

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Kurt Lambert

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Stargazer1x wrote:
Ahasver wrote:

Thank you for your feedback. Our reasoning runs along these lines:
i) Rotterdam is a duchy with a port, not just a port
ii) if you were going to send an army into Rotterdam there would be no fight as there is nobody to fight against
iii) an army cannot fight a squadron and once the army enters the squadron will have to put out to sea immediately

Does that sound reasonable?


Actually, an army cannot make an amphibious assault against a port which contains a squadron. Refer to section 13.71. The squadron must be eliminated first by naval combat.

Armies which amph assault a port still must survive the port guns regardless if there are defending units. Also it is possible for an adjacent army to intercept an army making an amph assault. Because of the interception, a force amph assaulting may find itself in a fight when it wasn't expecting one.

Squadrons are put out to sea when an enemy force flags the duchy. This occurs when an enemy army attacks the port via land connection, not an amph assault. However, 'Descent From the Sea' would fall under amph assault.

Hope this clears things up for you.
W

thank you for your feedback however, there is a misunderstanding.
I was not referring to an army making an amph assault but moving in overland (w/o interception). In such a case there is no combat for lack of a unit to fight against.
Your take?
 
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Jason Johns
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Ahasver wrote:
Stargazer1x wrote:
Ahasver wrote:

Thank you for your feedback. Our reasoning runs along these lines:
i) Rotterdam is a duchy with a port, not just a port
ii) if you were going to send an army into Rotterdam there would be no fight as there is nobody to fight against
iii) an army cannot fight a squadron and once the army enters the squadron will have to put out to sea immediately

Does that sound reasonable?


Actually, an army cannot make an amphibious assault against a port which contains a squadron. Refer to section 13.71. The squadron must be eliminated first by naval combat.

Armies which amph assault a port still must survive the port guns regardless if there are defending units. Also it is possible for an adjacent army to intercept an army making an amph assault. Because of the interception, a force amph assaulting may find itself in a fight when it wasn't expecting one.

Squadrons are put out to sea when an enemy force flags the duchy. This occurs when an enemy army attacks the port via land connection, not an amph assault. However, 'Descent From the Sea' would fall under amph assault.

Hope this clears things up for you.
W

thank you for your feedback however, there is a misunderstanding.
I was not referring to an army making an amph assault but moving in overland (w/o interception). In such a case there is no combat for lack of a unit to fight against.
Your take?



No. I think his point is if a unit couldn't do it then "magic troops" couldn't do it. Descent from the sea implies a small landing force, smaller than even a "unit". So, no not allowed (is his point).
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Daniel Blumentritt
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Quote:
However, 'Descent From the Sea' would fall under amph assault.


I disagree. It's not an amphibious assault by rule. It may be conceptually similar, but it is not one.
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Daniel Blumentritt
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FWIW, the 1st edition FAQ says "This event cannot be used against a Duchy containing an enemy Squadron".

I believe the card wording did change between editions, but only to clarify that only your Camp has to control the zone you "descend" from, not your specific Nation.
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Kurt Lambert

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Thanks Daniel, that helps.
 
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