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Subject: Price...is it a bit steep or a steal? rss

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austin bowen
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I love Uwe, he's my favorite designer hands down and I'm a sucker for most of his games. I watched a little mini play through overview thing and they said it's on the lighter side. I also looked at what you get in the box and kind of felt slightly underwhelmed based on the retail price of $63.99. What do you guys think? I love Norwegian themed games too, but with Indian Summer coming out in December, I'm unsure if I should pony up $64 for this one. I'd love to know your thoughts.
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Mikko Saari
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Philibert has it for €49.95 ($59), which sounds like a reasonable price for a big box board game. Not too steep, but yeah, not a steal. But if it's a good game, then the price doesn't really matter, and if it's not, well, I can always sell it for 20-30 € without issues, so...
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Derek McCabe
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Until Uwe's releases overcome my yearly income, it will never be too steep!
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Rafael Gamba
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A Feast for Odin was worth it, so if you are looking for a big box game this should hit the mark.
 
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abowen83 wrote:
based on the retail price of $63.99. What do you guys think? I love Norwegian themed games too, but with Indian Summer coming out in December, I'm unsure if I should pony up $64 for this one. I'd love to know your thoughts.


That's about right for a Uwe gamne. As a admitted lover of his games this shouldnt be anything new to you.

Also, since when does a game's components dictate it's worth? A box of broken gold chains is expensive, but a pretty lousy game. Extreme example, but the point is there.

Price is relative. If it's a good game I'll buy it. If it isn't I'll move on. I didn't think it was any more complicated than that.

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Maddest Hatter wrote:
abowen83 wrote:
based on the retail price of $63.99. What do you guys think? I love Norwegian themed games too, but with Indian Summer coming out in December, I'm unsure if I should pony up $64 for this one. I'd love to know your thoughts.


That's about right for a Uwe gamne. As a admitted lover of his games this shouldnt be anything new to you.

Also, since when does a game's components dictate it's worth? A box of broken gold chains is expensive, but a pretty lousy game. Extreme example, but the point is there.

Price is relative. If it's a good game I'll buy it. If it isn't I'll move on. I didn't think it was any more complicated than that.



I disagree with this line about a game being worth whatever price if it's a good enough game. A commodity has a certain value based on a lot of various costs (art, design, components, etc etc etc).

A good publisher will try and keep the price right about the same as a the value, which will include an average rate of profit necessary to keep the publisher in the business of publishing games. (all staff wages are included in the value).

Sometimes, however, some publishers might inflate the price of the game over the value. If demand is high enough and they have a monopoly on what makes that game sell-able (respected designer, etc) then they very well might get away with that, especially with the help of consumers who say things like 'if it's a good game it's worth it.' And that may very well be fine for consumers that have a reasonable amount of disposable income for the hobby.

But we do need to recognise that any inflation of the price above its value will negatively impact those games who have quite low amounts of disposable income and must use that money very carefully.

I'm not saying Nusford is one thing or the other -- I'm just addressing the underlying economic logic.
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patrocles wrote:
Maddest Hatter wrote:
abowen83 wrote:
based on the retail price of $63.99. What do you guys think? I love Norwegian themed games too, but with Indian Summer coming out in December, I'm unsure if I should pony up $64 for this one. I'd love to know your thoughts.


That's about right for a Uwe gamne. As a admitted lover of his games this shouldnt be anything new to you.

Also, since when does a game's components dictate it's worth? A box of broken gold chains is expensive, but a pretty lousy game. Extreme example, but the point is there.

Price is relative. If it's a good game I'll buy it. If it isn't I'll move on. I didn't think it was any more complicated than that.



I disagree with this line about a game being worth whatever price if it's a good enough game. A commodity has a certain value based on a lot of various costs (art, design, components, etc etc etc).


That explains your original question.

I guess we agree to disagree. If you look at a game is a pure commodity then sure, the value is based solely on the sum of its components. I just feel that value, for me, has far more to do with how much playtime it will see than the physical stuff in the box.

It could be argued that games are intellectual properties. Much in the same way a Monet hanging in a museum is. As such, that painting is worth more than the sum of it's parts. If you buy a print of that painting (a sheet of paper) you're overpaying by a gross amount. Games are the same for me. I'm buying the end-result of someone's creativity.

if I based a board game's value largely on "what's in the box" then I'd be in the wrong hobby. But I personally give a lot of value to something if I'll get use out of it.

But we gamer's buy/collect games for different reasons. Uwe's games have traditionally been expensive. But traditionally been worth it - regardless of the components. To me anyway.
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Maddest Hatter wrote:
patrocles wrote:
Maddest Hatter wrote:
abowen83 wrote:
based on the retail price of $63.99. What do you guys think? I love Norwegian themed games too, but with Indian Summer coming out in December, I'm unsure if I should pony up $64 for this one. I'd love to know your thoughts.


That's about right for a Uwe gamne. As a admitted lover of his games this shouldnt be anything new to you.

Also, since when does a game's components dictate it's worth? A box of broken gold chains is expensive, but a pretty lousy game. Extreme example, but the point is there.

Price is relative. If it's a good game I'll buy it. If it isn't I'll move on. I didn't think it was any more complicated than that.



I disagree with this line about a game being worth whatever price if it's a good enough game. A commodity has a certain value based on a lot of various costs (art, design, components, etc etc etc).


That explains your original question.

I guess we agree to disagree. If you look at a game is a pure commodity then sure, the value is based solely on the sum of its components. I just feel that value, for me, has far more to do with how much playtime it will see than the physical stuff in the box.




Just to be clear, I did not equate the value with the components, there are a lot of other considerations including:

Quote:
It could be argued that games are intellectual properties. Much in the same way a Monet hanging in a museum is. As such, that painting is worth more than the sum of it's parts. If you buy a print of that painting (a sheet of paper) you're overpaying by a gross amount. Games are the same for me. I'm buying the end-result of someone's creativity.


design time salary for whoever designed it (as well as the labour put into the art and all other creative elements) are included in the value of the game. Ideally for me the designer of the game would be the owner of the intellectual property and all rights for future sales would remain with the designer. Unfortuantely we don't usually work in ideal economic terms and it is businesses that own the intellectual property often. But that' opening up a whole different debate.

The point, is all of these elements that you have mentioned are accounted for in the value. Prints of a famous piece of art is a rather exceptional commodity example - art as commodity is a funny old world that needs a lot of careful analysis in its own right.


Quote:
if I based a board game's value largely on "what's in the box" then I'd be in the wrong hobby. But I personally give a lot of value to something if I'll get use out of it.


This is why some economists differentiate between exchange value and use value. The commodity requires a use value in order to be sellable, tradeable. You have to want it, someone has to want to play it. but the use value itself is not quantifiable. You buy a banana because you are hungry, you eat the banana and that is you consuming its use value, but none of that affects the exchange value, or how do we figure out how much that banana should cost from plantation to grocery store. The fact that you might have walked into the store absolutely ravenous and desperate for that banana does not mean that it should cost you more. In fact we condemn price gouging when businesses take advantage of crises situations to artificially raise their prices way above the actual exchange value.

I'm not the op, incidentally.
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Nelson Cox
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There is definitely an underwhelming amount of components for a "Feast for Odin" and "Fields of Arle" pricing..

I get that if it is great it could overcome that but most people will have to initially purchase the game and try to justify the cost to themselves..
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Mikko Saari
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Feast for Odin is more than 100 €, this is 50 €. So less than half the price. I don't mind if there's less components in Nusfjord.
 
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Nelson Cox
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msaari wrote:
Feast for Odin is more than 100 €, this is 50 €. So less than half the price. I don't mind if there's less components in Nusfjord.

Those were both introduced to the US at $64.99. Demand has changed both prices.
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GamingCoupleGA wrote:
msaari wrote:
Feast for Odin is more than 100 €, this is 50 €. So less than half the price. I don't mind if there's less components in Nusfjord.

Those were both introduced to the US at $64.99. Demand has changed both prices.

Feast for Odin MSRP is $100. Nusfjord's is $70.
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tumorous wrote:
GamingCoupleGA wrote:
msaari wrote:
Feast for Odin is more than 100 €, this is 50 €. So less than half the price. I don't mind if there's less components in Nusfjord.

Those were both introduced to the US at $64.99. Demand has changed both prices.

Feast for Odin MSRP is $100. Nusfjord's is $70.


Maybe but the OLGS' had them for that.. Way below MSRP or not. This could just be MAP rearing it's head with Nusfjord. People only care what they pay for it. Only the industry cares about MSRP usually.
 
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The industry cares about MSRP because gaming stores often work from MSRP and standard discounts (or lack of discounts). They don't ignore MSRP.

With patience, you'll likely be able to buy Nusfjord at $50 or less.

These are not comparably priced games.
 
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Mikko Saari
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Well, we Europeans tend to care about the MSRP, because that's pretty much what we have to pay. There are no deep discount online stores in Finland, and few in Europe.

At Philibert, which is a moderately priced store by European standards, Feast for Odin is 99 € and Nusfjord is 49.95 €. No way these two games are priced the same, and there's no reason to expect a similar amount of components in the games.
 
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austin bowen
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I think i can love Uwe and still question A game such as this. I paid far less for far more designed by Uwe. Don't misunderstand my questioning. I didn't really find this to be a big box game in comparison to Agricola or Feast.
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If I absolutely love a game, I'll pay a high price. I paid $129 for my last pre-GMT copy of 1846: The Race for the Midwest. The question is how many games deserve that sort of price insensitivity.

I enjoy some Feld games and not others. My favorite games of his came out in the previous decade. So with a game like that, at a price like that, I'll play somebody else's copy and if I love it, we'll see. If it were more like 2010 prices, I'd be more likely to take a chance
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Eric Brosius wrote:
I enjoy some Feld games and not others. My favorite games of his came out in the previous decade. So with a game like that, at a price like that, I'll play somebody else's copy and if I love it, we'll see.

Except this isn't a Feld game.
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Uwe in Poland
For comparison:

In Poland, Uwe’s games are, component and production-wise, to the exact same standard as elsewhere but necessarily priced lower. I picked up A Feast for Odin the week it released here for the equivalent of $60, and Fields of Arle (whose Polish edition was, interestingly, crowdfunded) for $50. Glass Road I got new for $25. Cottage Garden for $20. Gates of Loyang can be gotten new for $40. And so on. I’m assuming Nusfjord’s eventual theoretical Polish edition will retail here for around $40.

Mind you, everything’s relative and $60 for Odin into Polish zloties isn’t necessarily inexpensive given Polish wages (there’s a dramatic dip in affluence once you cross the border from Germany), but it’s obviously a fantastic deal for an epic game and, as noted, the production quality matches that of the German and English editions of Uwe’s games in our library. Same thick cardboard goodness.

But yes, if there’s any designer whose games I would pay far more for (and have, for imported English editions of especially language-heavy games such as Agricola, because English is my native language), it would be Uwe. When my wife and I built the cabin we live in now, I had a specific shelf carpentered just for Uwe’s games. A magnificent tapestry of spines.
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Just to note it, a few shops in Poland are selling the English edition of Nusfjord for between 170–180 zloties, which is roughly $50. Again, that’s actually quite expensive for Poland (to compare, Polish editions of Lorenzo il Magnifico and Terraforming Mars can be gotten for closer to $35), but it’s obviously a fantastic deal generally. Mind you, I hate to begrudge amazing board game designers and publishers an extra $10–15 (especially so in the case of a one-man indie like Steve Finn). But, you know, on a tight budget and all…
 
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The price on this is higher than usual. Didn’t Asmodee raise the price after the game was announced?

This has roughly the same components as Glass Road, which sells for $20 less. Feast for Odin is only $30 more, and it has many more components.

(Prices in CAD)

Of course, physical components do not solely determine price or relative value, but it’s clear that this game is expensive ($77!) for what it is.
 
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dcorban wrote:
The price on this is higher than usual. Didn’t Asmodee raise the price after the game was announced?

This has roughly the same components as Glass Road, which sells for $20 less. Feast for Odin is only $30 more, and it has many more components.

(Prices in CAD)

Of course, physical components do not solely determine price or relative value, but it’s clear that this game is expensive ($77!) for what it is.

According to Hanno, Asmodee didn’t raise the price. Although they DID employ the nefarious $.99 pricing scheme, those cads!

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grant5 wrote:
dcorban wrote:
The price on this is higher than usual. Didn’t Asmodee raise the price after the game was announced?

This has roughly the same components as Glass Road, which sells for $20 less. Feast for Odin is only $30 more, and it has many more components.

(Prices in CAD)

Of course, physical components do not solely determine price or relative value, but it’s clear that this game is expensive ($77!) for what it is.

According to Hanno, Asmodee didn’t raise the price. Although they DID employ the nefarious $.99 pricing scheme, those cads!



Thanks for the link, but in that very same topic (post directly below the Hanno post), it is pointed out that the price did indeed increase significantly here after preorders were being taken.

Either way, paying as much for this game as I once paid for The Colonists is frustrating.
 
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