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Subject: Slashdot: Study finds banning trolls works to some degree... rss

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Mac Mcleod
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https://science.slashdot.org/story/17/09/13/205213/study-fin...
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On October 5, 2015, facing mounting criticism about the hate groups proliferating on Reddit, the site banned a slew of offensive subreddits, including r/Coontown and r/fatpeoplehate, which targeted Black people and those with weight issues. But did banning these online groups from Reddit diminish hateful behavior overall, or did the hate just spread to other places? A new study from the Georgia Institute of Technology, Emory University, and University of Michigan examines just that, and uses data collected from 100 million Reddit posts that were created before and after the aforementioned subreddits were dissolved. Published in the journal ACM Transactions on Computer-Human Interaction, the researchers conclude that the 2015 ban worked. More accounts than expected discontinued their use on the site, and accounts that stayed after the ban drastically reduced their hate speech. However, studies like this raise questions about the systemic issues facing the internet at large, and how our culture should deal with online hate speech. First, the researchers automatically extracted words from the banned subreddits to create a dataset that included hate speech and community-specific lingo. The researchers looked at the accounts of users who were active on those subreddits and compared their posting activity from before and after those offensive subreddits were banned. The team was able to monitor upticks or drops in the hate speech across Reddit and if that speech had "migrated" to other subreddits as a result.


I think it's worked here.

Signal to noise is way up. Civility is way up.
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maxo-texas wrote:
Signal to noise is way up. Civility is way up.


Civility isn't genuinely up; genuine dissent is down.

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Alaren wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
Signal to noise is way up. Civility is way up.


Civility isn't genuinely up; genuine dissent is down.


Rubbish. Were that the case, you'd not be having full-on arguments here on every subject. Oh, true, few here think much of Trump but that's largely because we ban white supremacists-- his main voter base.
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Alaren wrote:
Civility isn't genuinely up; genuine dissent is down.
Word. It gets old for me, a dyed in the wool liberal, to run around having to give the other side (as I have understood it, from my imperfect perceptions) in the occasional debate because we have few left to give it. I guess it is more civil than primary source arguments because I don't have an overt ascerbic attitude, nor emotional investment in a purely intellectual exploration of a position? Still, at the end it feels like a less than satisfying discussion.
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maxo-texas wrote:


I think it's worked here.

Signal to noise is way up. Civility is way up.


They still let me post.


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whac3 wrote:
Oh, true, few here think much of Trump but that's largely because we ban white supremacists-- his main voter base.


Anyone who believes this claim is completely out of touch with reality, living in a fantasy world chock-a-block with bugbears and grumpkins. Trump Derangement Syndrome is real and apparently you've contracted it.
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maxo-texas wrote:
https://science.slashdot.org/story/17/09/13/205213/study-fin...

I think it's worked here.

Signal to noise is way up. Civility is way up.
I don't think it is a good parallel. The "trolls" on Reddit were given designated troll space and when that space got too ugly to be tolerated as part of Reddit, those spaces were eliminated. BGG provided space for BGG "trolls" in the form of RSP, but when things got ugly they excised the "trolls", not the space. Which led to gnashing of the teeth of who actually met the definition of a "troll", some were obvious and some were not. Only Ocatavian had the secret Troll recognition manual.

In order for BGG to be an accurate comparison, RSP would have to have been destroyed and then an evaluation of the whole site to see if trolling increased in other forums.
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KrazyIrish89 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
I think it's worked here.

Signal to noise is way up. Civility is way up.


For certain people sure.


Right, imagine an article titled "busing homeless people to other cities alleviates poverty to some degree!"
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KrazyIrish89 wrote:
Alaren wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Oh, true, few here think much of Trump but that's largely because we ban white supremacists-- his main voter base.


Anyone who believes this claim is completely out of touch with reality, living in a fantasy world chock-a-block with bugbears and grumpkins. Trump Derangement Syndrome is real and apparently you've contracted it.


If we take majority to mean say 2/3rds...
I'm not disagreeing with the rest of what you said, but "majority" has never meant 2/3rds.
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Alaren wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Oh, true, few here think much of Trump but that's largely because we ban white supremacists-- his main voter base.


Anyone who believes this claim is completely out of touch with reality, living in a fantasy world chock-a-block with bugbears and grumpkins. Trump Derangement Syndrome is real and apparently you've contracted it.
Say hi to Tripp since he does your thinking for you now.
 
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Alaren wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
Signal to noise is way up. Civility is way up.


Civility isn't genuinely up; genuine dissent is down.



What is actually down is pictures of dead bodies, rape jokes, and a variety of other actions that have nothing to do with a political viewpoint. I don't miss the links to hate sites one little bit. Really does not add much to political discourse
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KrazyIrish89 wrote:
…I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and guess he is being extremely hyperbolic. At least I hope he is...

In the literal sense yes but from another POV no., To vote for Trump you had to accept his views which were clear and open from day one. He openly crossed the line of what any decent society should be willing to tolerate and got elected anyway.

Then Ken has the chutzpa to talk about "Trump derangement syndrome"? The man started his campaign denouncing a judge for having Mexican ancestry, said he'd deny rights to immigrants and Muslims-- including American citizens. He offered to pay court costs for for people who got violent at his rallies. The list goes on.

You can stomach that, Ken, when supposedly you're a lawyer?
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whac3 wrote:
KrazyIrish89 wrote:
…I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and guess he is being extremely hyperbolic. At least I hope he is...

In the literal sense yes but from another POV no., To vote for Trump you had to accept his views which were clear and open from day one. He openly crossed the line of what any decent society should be willing to tolerate and got elected anyway.

Then Ken has the chutzpa to talk about "Trump derangement syndrome"? The man started his campaign denouncing a judge for having Mexican ancestry, said he'd deny rights to immigrants and Muslims-- including American citizens. He offered to pay court costs for for people who got violent at his rallies. The list goes on.

You can stomach that, Ken, when supposedly you're a lawyer?

Ken is having difficulty dealing with Trump and the clear hypocrisy of the Christians (and Mormons) who voted for him. I'd bet on the odds of Alaren eventually becoming an atheist at around 80%, Trump might even be the cause of it. I suspect that is why he mostly avoids showing up on RSP anymore, he just can't deal with the stress between what his religion tells him and the actual truth.

The only people suffering from "Trump derangement syndrome" are those who think the man is qualified to be president.
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whac3 wrote:
KrazyIrish89 wrote:
…I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and guess he is being extremely hyperbolic. At least I hope he is...

In the literal sense yes but from another POV no.


"From a certain point a view," huh? Okay, Obi-wan.

whac3 wrote:
Then Ken has the chutzpa to talk about "Trump derangement syndrome"? The man started his campaign denouncing a judge for having Mexican ancestry, said he'd deny rights to immigrants and Muslims-- including American citizens. He offered to pay court costs for for people who got violent at his rallies. The list goes on.

You can stomach that, Ken, when supposedly you're a lawyer?


This isn't about me or what I can or cannot stomach. You made the claim that Trump's "main voter base" is "white supremacists" which is simply false. You have now acknowledged that it is at least hyperbolic (a fancy way of being false), even though you want to maintain that it's still true from a certain "POV."

Delusion is a certain point of view, so I'm willing to concede the point.
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Every single bloody one of Trump's voters accepted his openly racist bull-shit.-- Every damned one.
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whac3 wrote:
Every single bloody one of Trump's voters accepted his openly racist bull-shit.-- Every damned one.

Don't forget the open misogyny and constant lying as well.

All that really matters here, however, is that they got their man on the supreme court. So it is completely ok to elect someone who violates every belief that you hold dear, just so long as he delivers the goods.
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sfox wrote:
Ken is having difficulty dealing with Trump and the clear hypocrisy of the Christians (and Mormons) who voted for him. I'd bet on the odds of Alaren eventually becoming an atheist at around 80%, Trump might even be the cause of it. I suspect that is why he mostly avoids showing up on RSP anymore, he just can't deal with the stress between what his religion tells him and the actual truth.


You know, I really thought I had grown inured to the way y'all insist on making every thread a conversation about my personal characteristics. But between you and Moshe this seems fast even by your lofty standards. Is this what passes for "civil," then?
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whac3 wrote:
Every single bloody one of Trump's voters accepted his openly racist bull-shit.-- Every damned one.


Man. That is some mighty fine 24-point civility you've got going on there, Moshe. And the most civil profanity I've ever seen.

The system works! I withdraw my objections!
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whac3 wrote:
Every single bloody one of Trump's voters accepted his openly racist bull-shit.-- Every damned one.
Which leads to the question, is being unsympathetic to claims of racism racist? There is a possibility that your conclusion of "openly racist" is rejected by some Trump supporters as hyperbole or oversensitivity, which does not necessarily make them racist.

I think his platform is racist and courts racists, but I'm not sure that many of the people who are mad about other things care enough about racism to hold him accountable for it. They may see it as not their battle, all they want is to not be ruled by Hillary. It's over simplistic, it's head-in-the-sandism and it enables bad things to happen to society, but it doesn't necessarily make them racists. Selfish? Probably.

I think it is the danger of the spiral to fascism, the racism is a symptom, but one not important to enough people to keep off the platform of other stuff that bolsters their Me-first world view.
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KrazyIrish89 wrote:
....

Comment deleted. Please do the same.
 
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TheChin! wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Every single bloody one of Trump's voters accepted his openly racist bull-shit.-- Every damned one.
Which leads to the question, is being unsympathetic to claims of racism racist? There is a possibility that your conclusion of "openly racist" is rejected by some Trump supporters as hyperbole or oversensitivity, which does not necessarily make them racist.

I think his platform is racist and courts racists, but I'm not sure that many of the people who are mad about other things care enough about racism to hold him accountable for it. They may see it as not their battle, all they want is to not be ruled by Hillary. It's over simplistic, it's head-in-the-sandism and it enables bad things to happen to society, but it doesn't necessarily make them racists. Selfish? Probably.

I think it is the danger of the spiral to fascism, the racism is a symptom, but one not important to enough people to keep off the platform of other stuff that bolsters their Me-first world view.

His own words damn Trump thoroughly over and over. There's no question of taking someone's claim for it. No one could honestly claim not to know what Trump's views were and are. Sorry that doesn't fly.
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whac3 wrote:
Ken, I am being civil. If you want the gloves off, I'll tell you what I really think of you. You are no different from the Germans who voted for ro after the fact baqcked Hitler but would have been horrified to think of themselves as antisemites or racists.


No no, please, don't hold back on my behalf. Let's hear it. Overwhelm me with your civility, Moshe! Show me how civil you are when responding to genuine dissent, please.

Just be aware that you've already clearly made some false assumptions and building on those might not be in your best interests.
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KrazyIrish89 wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Every single bloody one of Trump's voters accepted his openly racist bull-shit.-- Every damned one.


I would be willing to bet a good amount that the majority of Trump's voters voted out of party allegiance or pure apathy then because they are white supremacists. People are far far more likely to vote for someone just because they share the same party. It is very tribal.

The onus is on you to provide evidence that the majority of Trump voters are white supremacists. Otherwise you do come across as false and widely hyperbolic. Be rational here man. I promise a significant portion (say 10 to 40 million that you claim) of Americans are not white supremacists.


They either did it out of bigotry or they were willing to accept his well-documented bigotry and prejudice. That is actually the rational way of looking at it. Either way they were supporting bigotry either actively or tacitly. Voting for a bigot is a fairly strong piece of evidence
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KrazyIrish89 wrote:
sfox wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Every single bloody one of Trump's voters accepted his openly racist bull-shit.-- Every damned one.

Don't forget the open misogyny and constant lying as well.

All that really matters here, however, is that they got their man on the supreme court. So it is completely ok to elect someone who violates every belief that you hold dear, just so long as he delivers the goods.


I would bet most people (on either side) are more likely to vote for the candidate their side puts on the ballot simply because they have an R or D next to their name then for any other reason.


The ultimate question ends up being are you "complicit" to the stated or obvious views of the candidate you vote for. While I do agree that the mass majority of American voters vote via what letter sits next to the name, should we excuse people who vote for problematic individuals due to party loyalty?

If a candidate's core platform was something like "end gay marriage" or "abolish the second amendment" or "liberals/conservatives are subhuman filth", how much should you be allowed to walk it off as "Well, he was my guy..."
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Ken;

That's not being civil and I'm not claiming it is. I've said my piece.
 
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