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Most of you have no idea who Thomas Frank is. Here is a link to my thread from last week with the link to his 50 min. bookselling speech from his book selling tour.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1844614/what-make-age-trump...

He says a lot of things. The key ones here are:
1] In the early 70s the Democratic Party decided to take the American workers for granted and align with the top 10% of earners [the Repubs are aligned with the top 1% of earners].
2] This top 10% are the key class of the Meritocracy of America. These people all got good educations at the best American schools and tend to have contempt for those who were not smart or lucky enough to do the same. These people have contempt for FDR's New Deal. They want to keep it dead. These people believe that globalization is the best thing since "sliced Bread".
3] This decision got Clinton elected and reelected. Obama talked great as a populist but governed just like Clinton.
4] However, it will not get Dems elected any more. The economic situation is like the 30s in many ways, so one might expect the anti-business party to be winning big. But, the Dems just got wiped out again. They lost at the state level and in Congress, and the Pres.; they lost everything. Worse than that, now the American workers are desperate, and now Trump has shown the Repuds how to con the American workers into voting for the Repuds. Therefore, the Dems are going to keep losing until they rethink who is included in their coalition. If the workers are excluded then this is rejecting the largest single block of American voters. [I estimate them at 35+% of likely voters, and I think this is larger than any other block.]
. . Frank says that the Dems keep losing worse and worse with each election because they have excluded the Am. workers from their coalition.


Many of the posters here at BGG RSP and who read economic threads are in that top 10% group. This is why many of you have contempt for me.

I'm a New Deal Progressive. I align with the mass of the American people against all the rest of the world. I want to resist the "race to the bottom" that globalization is pushing facilitating. I want to rethink the economic model being used because that one is working against the interests of the mass of the American people. These opinions are why so many of you have such contempt for me. So be it, the mass of the American people will win in the end. They/we always have and they/we always will. If you align against them/us you will lose. Sooner or later you will lose.
. . The Democrats and the Meritocrats have a choice to make. They should choose wisely.

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Did he tell you that I think you dress funny?


But other than that, perhaps here in Europe we're more enlightened than in the US. Or anyway, the globalisation-driven so-called 'third way' of the socialist parties left the lower-class workers, their original voter base, in the cold, and that led to the rise of populist parties here. Europe has been dealing with a rise of populism for quite some years now, and the US is just catching up, with the election of Trump.

The socialist parties have done a lot to improve living standards for the workers in the last hundred years. However, somewhere during the seventies or eighties the working class had been raised high enough and were quite comfortable, so socialist parties turned their attention to other goals: protection of minorities, animal welfare, the environment. Then, when globalisation became more important, the socialist parties did not pay attention to the fact that their original voter base was hit hardest by the resulting new distribution of wealth. This proved fertile grounds for the populism that has come up since the start of this century. Unfortunately, most populist parties offer the wrong solution to the problem, by blaming immigrants, the islam and the EU (and international economic cooperation in general).

A global economy means a net raise in prosperity. Throwing that away, closing the borders, like the populist parties want, means lower prosperity for a nation (I won't delve deeply into de consequences of Brexit at this point). One shouldn't want that. Instead, one should want a government that works on distributing the benefits of that prosperity increase in a fair way. That can be done with an income/tax policy, or with a labour/minimum wage policy (making sure that well paying jobs are available for anyone), and in other ways.
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Steve1501 wrote:
I want to resist the "race to the bottom" that globalization is pushing.


The race to the bottom isn't driven by globalisation, it is driven by capitalism and maximising value for shareholders. At least, that's the way I see it, as an active union rep in my trade sector.
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Doesn't believe his point bashing the Dems. Not win anymore? Do you honestly believe that? All that nonsense talk about one party being permanently disfavored is just that, nonsense. It's not the first time someone speaks doomsday about the current political parties, and it probably won't be the last. But history has shown that the Presidency, and congressional elections sway between parties like a pendulum.

Frankly, the only thing the Dems have to do to keep their ball rolling is appeal to the minorities of this country, which are becoming the majority, and will be just that in the next 30 years. This means a platform of creating opportunity (educationally and job market), protecting basic human and health rights, and advancing social causes that aid the minorities. White conservatism is doomed in this country, simply borne out by the facts that they are losing population.

And I don't agree with his stance that Dems became the party of the 10%. If that was the case, how do you explain California, which has a hugely minority population, and consistently votes Democratic?

Frank appears to be an alarmist, perhaps playing that card to trump up readership and support. All is not that bad with the Dems, and the pendulum will continue to swing in their direction on occasion. Perhaps sooner than you think, given who is in office now.
 
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theweefrenchman wrote:
Steve1501 wrote:
I want to resist the "race to the bottom" that globalization is pushing.


The race to the bottom isn't driven by globalisation, it is driven by capitalism and maximising value for shareholders. At least, that's the way I see it, as an active union rep in my trade sector.

I'm going to guess and assume you are looking at the word I used, "pushing".

Don't put to much stock in that one word. For sure maximizing value for shareholders is doing more of the "pushing", so maybe I should have said facilitating. The old tariffs kept stockholders from making management go over seas to make stuff and bring it back [as did cargo handling methods that involved nets]. The free trade agreements of Globalization let them do much more of that.

 
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theweefrenchman wrote:
Steve1501 wrote:
I want to resist the "race to the bottom" that globalization is pushing.


The race to the bottom isn't driven by globalisation, it is driven by capitalism and maximising value for shareholders. At least, that's the way I see it, as an active union rep in my trade sector.

No, the race to the bottom is driven by outlandish disparities in wealth and income throughout the world. If I'm a producer whose labor-intensive processes can be decoupled and off-shored, I can literally pay pennies on the dollar for that labor in undeveloped countries. I can also, in almost all cases, avoid pesky labor, safety, and environmental regulations by producing in those countries rather than in my own. Of course, this means that I'll be laying off domestic workers and undermining my own country's labor market, but what the hell. Domestic workers are too damn expensive (and too damn protected by labor, safety, and environmental regulations), and they don't provide enough in the way of increased productivity to compensate for my paying pennies on the dollar somewhere else. It's simple cost-benefit analysis, and that's what's driving the race to the bottom.

Of course, at some point, those laid-off workers become a problem. They can't all work at Wal-Mart (or your British equivalent job-of-last-resort), they aren't all smart and savvy enough to retrain or re-educate for better jobs, and they aren't productive enough to compete with a Bangladeshi who is willing to work 16-hour days for wages that wouldn't even pay the electric bill in Glasgow.

Multiply by millions of jobs and thirty years of progression, and here we are.

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SPIGuy wrote:
theweefrenchman wrote:
Steve1501 wrote:
I want to resist the "race to the bottom" that globalization is pushing.


The race to the bottom isn't driven by globalisation, it is driven by capitalism and maximising value for shareholders. At least, that's the way I see it, as an active union rep in my trade sector.

No, the race to the bottom is driven by outlandish disparities in wealth and income throughout the world. If I'm a producer whose labor-intensive processes can be decoupled and off-shored, I can literally pay pennies on the dollar for that labor in undeveloped countries. I can also, in almost all cases, avoid pesky labor, safety, and environmental regulations by producing in those countries rather than in my own. Of course, this means that I'll be laying off domestic workers and undermining my own country's labor market, but what the hell. Domestic workers are too damn expensive (and too damn protected by labor, safety, and environmental regulations), and they don't provide enough in the way of increased productivity to compensate for my paying pennies on the dollar somewhere else. It's simple cost-benefit analysis, and that's what's driving the race to the bottom.


Sure, and not just the labour market, but also your consumer market.

SPIGuy wrote:
Of course, at some point, those laid-off workers become a problem. They can't all work at Wal-Mart (or your British equivalent job-of-last-resort), they aren't all smart and savvy enough to retrain or re-educate for better jobs, and they aren't productive enough to compete with a Bangladeshi who is willing to work 16-hour days for wages that wouldn't even pay the electric bill in Glasgow.

Multiply by millions of jobs and thirty years of progression, and here we are.


Agreed.

I think we broadly agree that it is the profit motive that is a major driver in all this, no? If it wasn't for the continued drive for profits, would companies be as quick to move jobs and production elsewhere? How high would tariffs have to be to put them off?
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Steve1501 wrote:

Many of the posters here at BGG RSP and who read economic threads are in that top 10% group. This is why many of you have contempt for me.

LOL. Of course, there couldn't possibly be any other reason, right?
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Slowing down globalization is just a stop-gap measure. If we try to slow progress down, other countries who offer free trade and unbridled automation will surpass us, and quickly. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. Korea, Japan, China, Europe, who knows exactly who or when, but it is certain if we get stuck in the Trump mentality of "(poor, mostly white) factory workers with dirty faces who work long hours is what makes America great" we will be left behind.

Globalization is the key to both wealth and peace for the entire planet. IF we work together and cooperate in good faith.

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Bill Cook
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The notion that the Democratic Party only cares about the top 10% is lunacy clearly contradicted by facts anyone can look up in two minutes.

A true progressive, someone who cares about people in all stratifications would back the party that is fighting for the bottom 90%. Maybe not as much as you and I would like, but unquestionably more than the Republicans.

When you and this Frank Thomas guy spread blatantly false attacks on Democrats, you help Republicans and hurt the very people you claim to care about.
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EMBison wrote:
When you and this Frank Thomas guy...
No! Not The Big Hurt!
Say it ain't so, Big Hurt!?!

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Steve1501 wrote:
Many of the posters here at BGG RSP and who read economic threads are in that top 10% group. This is why many of you have contempt for me.


This is pure well-poisoning.

I don't have contempt for you, by any means. That said, I'm not particularly impressed by your arguments, since it's not uncommon for you to offer very little in support of them, including when making pretty major claims, and (like here) you often take disagreement or criticism of your arguments personally.

Quote:
I'm a New Deal Progressive. I align with the mass of the American people against all the rest of the world. I want to resist the "race to the bottom" that globalization is pushing facilitating. I want to rethink the economic model being used because that one is working against the interests of the mass of the American people. These opinions are why so many of you have such contempt for me. So be it, the mass of the American people will win in the end. They/we always have and they/we always will. If you align against them/us you will lose. Sooner or later you will lose.
. . The Democrats and the Meritocrats have a choice to make. They should choose wisely.



Setting aside for a moment whether your political analysis is correct, I think it's worth noting that globalization and trade have lifted more people out of poverty than any other modern development. I think you're right about the flaws of our "meritocracy" (if I understand your viewpoint) and we may be more in agreement than you'd guess about at least some policy changes. But at a basic level I see no moral high ground in aligning myself with Americans against the rest of the world. I would like to pursue an approach to economics and policy that improve the lives of people worldwide. YMMV, but anything that criticizes wealthy Americans for putting their interests ahead of less wealthy Americans but encourages less wealthy Americans to put their interests ahead of non-Americans who are far less well off is pure tribalism.
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theweefrenchman wrote:
Steve1501 wrote:
I want to resist the "race to the bottom" that globalization is pushing.


The race to the bottom isn't driven by globalisation, it is driven by capitalism and maximising value for shareholders. At least, that's the way I see it, as an active union rep in my trade sector.


I think it's important to distinguish between capitalism and the extreme focus on maximizing shareholder value. Our current capitalist philosophy was developed fairly recently by a group of theorists led by Michael Jensen (fun fact, one of my HBS professors -- and if nothing else he's got enough integrity to give high marks to someone who disagrees vehemently and openly with him).

Before that, the prevailing theory of how to manage a company centered around stakeholders, which included communities businesses were located in, workers, customers, etc. Jensen argued that this diverse set of parties to whom managers were considered responsible actually meant that they weren't responsible to anyone and that this had created a rather huge agency problem that made businesses much less efficient and productive than they should be.

The new theory was that managers were hired by shareholders and were, in fact, responsible only to them -- but that this didn't mean that the interests of the other stakeholders would be ignored because effectively serving the interests of shareholders meant also meeting those needs.

Jensen is actually a really nice and caring guy, and I think he honestly believes that his system is the best -- at least in the long run and in aggregate -- because it will lead to abundance which should ultimately mean that everyone is better off.

That said, the problem of suggesting that businesses should behave purely as self-interested actors who only consider their effects on others in terms of how it affects their own interests should be obvious. We already have a word for people like that -- we call them sociopaths. Jensen and his peers had essentially told investors and managers that it was right and good for them to model their corporate person decisions as though they were sociopaths. Not a good recipe.

I don't know if that genie can be put back in the bottle, but I think it's worth noting that we had significant periods of capitalism that didn't follow this model and other nations have resisted it to a significant extent.
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
... led by Michael Jensen (fun fact, one of my HBS professors -- and if nothing else he's got enough integrity to give high marks to someone who disagrees vehemently and openly with him).
Chad Ellis: Up His Own Ass in RSP since 2004!
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Steve
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
Steve1501 wrote:
Many of the posters here at BGG RSP and who read economic threads are in that top 10% group. This is why many of you have contempt for me.


This is pure well-poisoning.

I don't have contempt for you, by any means. That said, I'm not particularly impressed by your arguments, since it's not uncommon for you to offer very little in support of them, including when making pretty major claims, and (like here) you often take disagreement or criticism of your arguments personally.

Quote:
I'm a New Deal Progressive. I align with the mass of the American people against all the rest of the world. I want to resist the "race to the bottom" that globalization is pushing facilitating. I want to rethink the economic model being used because that one is working against the interests of the mass of the American people. These opinions are why so many of you have such contempt for me. So be it, the mass of the American people will win in the end. They/we always have and they/we always will. If you align against them/us you will lose. Sooner or later you will lose.
. . The Democrats and the Meritocrats have a choice to make. They should choose wisely.



Setting aside for a moment whether your political analysis is correct, I think it's worth noting that globalization and trade have lifted more people out of poverty than any other modern development. I think you're right about the flaws of our "meritocracy" (if I understand your viewpoint) and we may be more in agreement than you'd guess about at least some policy changes. But at a basic level I see no moral high ground in aligning myself with Americans against the rest of the world. I would like to pursue an approach to economics and policy that improve the lives of people worldwide. YMMV, but anything that criticizes wealthy Americans for putting their interests ahead of less wealthy Americans but encourages less wealthy Americans to put their interests ahead of non-Americans who are far less well off is pure tribalism.

I agree with that 1st sentence that I bolded a great deal. If you searched my economics posts here you would find 2 or 3 places were I said something like, "If we agree that it is a good thing for American workers to accept a reduced income so that other peole around the world can have jobs and join in the new world economy and have some prosperity, then there a few points I'd like to make:"
1] It is not right that Am. and Western European workers are the only people in the world who have to suffer for this.
2] It is only fair that Am. super rich and Am. top 10% should also suffer some, especially when the super rich use their money to buy the Am. Congress and Pres. and so subvert democracy in America. That is, these groups should pay higher taxes to support Gov. programs whatever they are. YMMV.
3] It is only fair that the leaders tell the American people the truth; that the workers will suffer to help the rest of the world's people. It would be nice to be able to get them to agree, but at least tell them this how it will be. Then they can plan accordingly. [But, if the upper class are intent on stealing the assets of other American then fine keep them in the dark, so they make bad decisions and lose their house as a result. Etc.]

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

My reply to your 2nd sentence that I bolded is:
Life is about competition. It always was and it always will be. This is true in biological evolution, in social evolution, in business, etc.
. . Until the end of WWII nations routinely competed through wars. In the nuclear age this is a bad thing to do [in fact it has been a waste for longer than that, certainly since 1914]. Now nations should compete with economics. Friendly economic competition will be good for everyone, by improving products, methods, goals, ideas, everything. There need to be rules though, rules that are fair.

In competition there must be teams. Examples of teams are:
1] One person. Like a pro singles tennis player.
2] A man, wife and their kids.
3] An extended family.
4] Everyone who owns or works for a very small local company.
5] A sports team.
6] An economic class.
7] A nation.
8] Etc.

Other nations know they are in that economic competition with every other nation including the US. The US loses [to some extent] because it doesn't work together as a nation. Instead, Americans compete with other Americans and in the process allow other nations to divide us so that they can beat us. America did so well in wwii BECAUSE it put aside all other interests to form one team to *crush* the evils of Nazism and the similar elements that were running Imperial Japan. It should do this again in the "friendly economic competition" that will be the order of the day for some time to come.

This is why I choose to align with the mass of the American people, especially the working class. Working for the good of the many is better than working for the good of the few. For the Meritocrats to be like a modern American Comp. (which are told to behave like sociopaths) and behave even a little that way toward their fellow Americans is working for the good of the few instead of the good of the many.

It is my firm belief that all other people in the world *are* formed into "tribes" (as you called them) to compete with all other tribes. The only question is what tribe is it fitting and proper for you [the readers] to join? I think the proper tribe is your nation, YMMV. [In Europe it is more complicated, is it your nation or the EU? You will have to decide. It is not fitting that I decide for you.]

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

You said that I make assertions and don't back then up enough. I haven't backed the above assertions up at all. If you can't see the truth and the moral choice then ... . YMMV

I'll write another thread about Thomas Frank's assertions about the Dems and Meritocrats today while you sleep.

 
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Steve1501 wrote:
Most of you have no idea who Thomas Frank is. Here is a link to my thread from last week with the link to his 50 min. bookselling speech from his book selling tour.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1844614/what-make-age-trump...

He says a lot of things. The key ones here are:
1] In the early 70s the Democratic Party decided to take the American workers for granted and align with the top 10% of earners [the Repubs are aligned with the top 1% of earners].
2] This top 10% are the key class of the Meritocracy of America. These people all got good educations at the best American schools and tend to have contempt for those who were not smart or lucky enough to do the same. These people have contempt for FDR's New Deal. They want to keep it dead. These people believe that globalization is the best thing since "sliced Bread".
3] This decision got Clinton elected and reelected. Obama talked great as a populist but governed just like Clinton.
4] However, it will not get Dems elected any more. The economic situation is like the 30s in many ways, so one might expect the anti-business party to be winning big. But, the Dems just got wiped out again. They lost at the state level and in Congress, and the Pres.; they lost everything. Worse than that, now the American workers are desperate, and now Trump has shown the Repuds how to con the American workers into voting for the Repuds. Therefore, the Dems are going to keep losing until they rethink who is included in their coalition. If the workers are excluded then this is rejecting the largest single block of American voters. [I estimate them at 35+% of likely voters, and I think this is larger than any other block.]
. . Frank says that the Dems keep losing worse and worse with each election because they have excluded the Am. workers from their coalition.


Many of the posters here at BGG RSP and who read economic threads are in that top 10% group. This is why many of you have contempt for me.

I'm a New Deal Progressive. I align with the mass of the American people against all the rest of the world. I want to resist the "race to the bottom" that globalization is pushing facilitating. I want to rethink the economic model being used because that one is working against the interests of the mass of the American people. These opinions are why so many of you have such contempt for me. So be it, the mass of the American people will win in the end. They/we always have and they/we always will. If you align against them/us you will lose. Sooner or later you will lose.
. . The Democrats and the Meritocrats have a choice to make. They should choose wisely.



Steve,

I really think it's time you took a few day's break. Seriously.
And if you are on any kind of medication, I would check it. Again- seriously.

You are drifting away towards someplace strange over the last couple months.

At the minimum, you are ramping up. It's time to cool off. Please take my advice that I also gave to Pinook.

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Mac, I'm not on any medication for mental problems.

So, I can't check the dosage.

YMMV, but I think Thomas Frank makes some good points.

I'm writing a new thread about that today. Look for it.

Really, I get it. People HATE having there core beliefs challenged.

And of course, I include me in that generalization.

Meritocrats have been spoon fed reasons for the last 25 years why they should think the way they think now is the only correct way to think. It is moral, it is good for everybody, it is unavoidable, etc.

I know you don't like the effects of automation much. Many here will tell you automation is unavoidable. Never mind that it will undermine the way that almost every person on earth is able to support him/herself and his family. It is unavoidable.
. . So, are you going to stop trying to solve that problem?

 
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You are really starting to give off paranoia vibes.

But okay- said my peace. I'm outta here.

Shame to see someone else melt down.
 
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Steve1501 wrote:

Many of the posters here at BGG RSP and who read economic threads are in that top 10% group. This is why many of you have contempt for me.


Congratulations. This degree of martyrdom has earned you honorary Utah citizenship.
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Steve1501 wrote:

YMMV, but I think Thomas Frank makes some good points.

I'm writing a new thread about that today. Look for it.

Really, I get it. People HATE having there core beliefs challenged.

And of course, I include me in that generalization.

Meritocrats have been spoon fed reasons for the last 25 years why they should think the way they think now is the only correct way to think. It is moral, it is good for everybody, it is unavoidable, etc.


The problem is that no, you don't get it. The fact that you even mention 'meritocrats' shows that you are arguing with caricatures that I don't think anyone in this forum believes. 'Everyone else has been brainwashed, and they think X', when they don't really even think X, is not a good pattern.

And yes, you are heading the same way as some others that became downright deranged as the months went by. Remember the guy that got so radicalized he ended up becoming a gamergater? remember lightrider? It's not a good road.

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The 1st reply about was from Europe, and Whymme seemed to agree that the same sort of problem is happening in Europe. Different but similar. So, your generalization is wrong.
. . Did you watch the 50 min. talk by T. Frank? If you didn't you missed the details that he provides.

Meritocrats is shorthand for the top 10% of earners.
. . All generalizations are flawed. Being 70 means I get to still use them because they help me make sense of the world. Those who can't see the forest because the trees are all different would agree that generalizations are to be avoided at all costs. Those who see the forest need to ignore the difference between the trees unless the differences make a difference. Wisdom is knowing which is which.

Thanks for your advice, though. I expect you have my best interests at heart. I would not have said that about many of the people who got banned. You and Mac I trust. I'll tone it down and just reply to others more often with, "I disagree, that's all there is to it. YMMV"

Are you going to give the same advice to Ken?

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EMBison wrote:
When you and this Frank Thomas guy spread blatantly false attacks on Democrats, you help Republicans and hurt the very people you claim to care about.


I'm not at all fond of this sort of reasoning because we need to keep a strongly critical attitude towards parties that claim to represent the interests of disadvantaged people.

Somehow this only seems to work one way - leftists and working class people are supposed to lay down the criticism and the asserting of their interests in front of their centrist, liberal friends, but there is no comparable pressure on liberals to find compromises with the working class and leftist people (and, in the US, people of colour) from which they demand this loyalty. They treat them as truly captive votes, because the alternative is worse; but if you keep forcing people to choose between very bad and even worse, they eventually give up.

A state of permanent crisis where you have to constantly swallow your ideas and always vote for the less bad candidate is unsustainable.
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Junior McSpiffy
United States
Riverton
Utah
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Steve1501 wrote:
All generalizations are flawed. Being 70 means I get to still use them because they help me make sense of the world.


I think you are confusing "generalizations" with "daily medication organizers." Being old doesn't give you legitimate access to logical fallacies.
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Mike Stiles
United States
California
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viclineal wrote:
EMBison wrote:
When you and this Frank Thomas guy spread blatantly false attacks on Democrats, you help Republicans and hurt the very people you claim to care about.


I'm not at all fond of this sort of reasoning because we need to keep a strongly critical attitude towards parties that claim to represent the interests of disadvantaged people.

Somehow this only seems to work one way - leftists and working class people are supposed to lay down the criticism and the asserting of their interests in front of their centrist, liberal friends, but there is no comparable pressure on liberals to find compromises with the working class and leftist people (and, in the US, people of colour) from which they demand this loyalty. They treat them as truly captive votes, because the alternative is worse; but if you keep forcing people to choose between very bad and even worse, they eventually give up.

A state of permanent crisis where you have to constantly swallow your ideas and always vote for the less bad candidate is unsustainable.


More common is someone coming forward and saying "I will bring you to truth and justice, burn the infidels!" and turning out to be either a con artist or comically ineffective and/or corrupt.

The disadvantaged and marginalized look like easy prey to demagogues.
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Bill Cook
United States
Massachusetts
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viclineal wrote:
EMBison wrote:
When you and this Frank Thomas guy spread blatantly false attacks on Democrats, you help Republicans and hurt the very people you claim to care about.


I'm not at all fond of this sort of reasoning because we need to keep a strongly critical attitude towards parties that claim to represent the interests of disadvantaged people.

Somehow this only seems to work one way - leftists and working class people are supposed to lay down the criticism and the asserting of their interests in front of their centrist, liberal friends, but there is no comparable pressure on liberals to find compromises with the working class and leftist people (and, in the US, people of colour) from which they demand this loyalty. They treat them as truly captive votes, because the alternative is worse; but if you keep forcing people to choose between very bad and even worse, they eventually give up.

A state of permanent crisis where you have to constantly swallow your ideas and always vote for the less bad candidate is unsustainable.


You completely misunderstand me. I've never said leftists and working class people are supposed to lay off the criticism. I've never said they need to put aside their interests.

I've said just the opposite. The Democratic party isn't doing enough for working people. It needs criticism. It needs to pushed to do more.

What it doesn't need is false attacks. The notion that the Democrats do nothing for working people is bullshit. The idea that both parties just cater to the top 10% is bullshit... and dangerous.
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