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Leaving Earth: Outer Planets» Forums » General

Subject: Cosmosphere & Helium 3 rss

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Den Ell

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I recently scanned an excellent playthrough: "Houston? We aren't in Kansas Anymore". When I had finished this was the last post:

"The house rule was all about the potential game breaking effects of the Moon. There are several threads about the game breaking minerals on the moon which are great places for discussion and criticism of the game.

My first plan was just to remove the minerals card from the Moon. Then I realized that skewed the odds for the Life mission too much in my favor. My next plan was to treat lunar minerals as just plain rock, but I didn't find that satisfying. I finally settled on the depletion plan instead, since it protects me against the moon, and for exponential growth on the inner planets as well."

Actually to answer the part about "We aren't in Kansas anymore", that isn't exactly true, they have the Cosmosphere.

Next, the house rule of diminishing returns concerning the moon isn't just a theory, it's a fact! Just look up "Helium 3" or go here:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/moon-mars/a235/1283056...

As for the "game breaking effects" the moon has in this game, is also a fact.

"Lunar Mining
Samples collected in 1969 by Neil Armstrong during the first lunar landing showed that helium-3 concentrations in lunar soil are at least 13 parts per billion (ppb) by weight. Levels may range from 20 to 30 ppb in undisturbed soils. Quantities as small as 20 ppb may seem too trivial to consider. But at a projected value of $40,000 per ounce, 220 pounds of helium-3 would be worth about $141 million."

So maybe the Moon isn't the "Game Breaker" here, but the answer to make human deep space travel more possible than ever and it just might be, whether by accident or design the reason why they law of diminishing returns would and indeed does work rather well in this game. All I want is one just ounce of Helium 3.
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Josh Zscheile
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Two problems with that logic:
1) The Moon minerals offer literally infinite wealth in the game. There is nothing in this universe giving you literally infinite wealth. I'd like to see how NASA cranked out millions of Saturn rockets in 1970.
2) You are a federal agency. Do you really think that if NASA found infinite wealth on one of their missions and had access to it, they would get to keep that?
 
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Den Ell

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Hey Josh, read it again.

one clue...
"the law of diminishing returns would and indeed does work rather well in this game..."
 
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Josh Zscheile
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I referred to the part where you discussed that the Moon might not be a game breaker. In the vanilla rules, it is.
As for a diminishing returns mechanism, it is up to you whether it is worth the book keeping. I see the money earned rather as a possible bonus for sample return missions, so one sample per location per player per game works fine for me.
 
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David
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In the revised rules for the base game samples can only be turned in for money at the beginning of the year, this solves the issue of infinite moon money.


Dagar wrote:
I referred to the part where you discussed that the Moon might not be a game breaker. In the vanilla rules, it is.
As for a diminishing returns mechanism, it is up to you whether it is worth the book keeping. I see the money earned rather as a possible bonus for sample return missions, so one sample per location per player per game works fine for me.
 
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Josh Zscheile
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Yes, you are right, I forgot that. Had a long day...
 
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Den Ell

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As a more direct reply to Josh:

http://www.explainingthefuture.com/helium3.html

"Nuclear fusion reactors using helium-3 could provide a highly efficient form of nuclear power with virtually no waste and no radiation."

And it's not corporations nor lesser entities looking for profit that's going to drive this lunar buggy. It's nations that are interested in it: China, Russia, India, you name it; they've all expressed interest in going there & mining it, and with good reason.

Personally, I think it might be to much to mine and bring back to earth: and might be better used as a source of clean Fusion energy to propel mankind to the planets and the stars beyond.
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Pawel Garycki
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Dagar wrote:
I referred to the part where you discussed that the Moon might not be a game breaker. In the vanilla rules, it is.
As for a diminishing returns mechanism, it is up to you whether it is worth the book keeping. I see the money earned rather as a possible bonus for sample return missions, so one sample per location per player per game works fine for me.

In the corrected rules Moon is also a game breaker. Now, instead of making infinite amount of cash in one turn, you make an exponential cash each turn, turining into infinite-like in a couple of turns. For other bodies the exponent rate is slower because of duration of the missions.
So,
1. a diminishing amount needs to be introduced as a rule nevertheless
2. or a maximum amount of samples per player should be introduced
3. or a maximum amount of samples to be converted to cash each year
4. or a diminishing amount per year (1 sample = full, 2nd sample diminished ... but you can sell 1 sample per year for the full effect)

I don't know if Stations fixes samples issue on Luna but if not the question will return.
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Larry L
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I'm going to finally try Station soon, so I will report back.

Aside from that my next plan was to switch (for solitaire) to one sample per location. The idea being that you sell mineral rights rather than actual minerals (or the government funding is from the excitement of the initial find.)
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