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Subject: Will I hate it if I hate Terra Mystica? Will I love it if I love Arkham Horror? rss

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Iori Yagami
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Well, since you can't avoid the hype blaring on every corner about this gem (? I hope), I have to check it out.
Always running out of resources, cant build, and all that blocking, when you can't get anywhere to build.
Also, sitting around and counting resourcing is boring AF.
Also, hex moving/distance counting is something I always loathed in games. That's why I will never touch wargames. But I looove Castles of Burgundy!
So, in what ways is this game better?
I do like Arkham Horror somewhat with encounters, mysteries, cool happenings and atmosphere, and many many many unique cards and chits.
Obviously, from GAMEPLAY aspect only. I am not paying for pictures and plastic figures.
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Grant
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It has very little in common with either game you cited. Maybe watch some video reviews?
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Iori Yagami
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Hmmm, I also like to get different types of games, for bigger breadth.
So, there is Netrunner, Carcassonne, Arkham, Coup, 7 Wonders, Puerto Rico, Star Realms, Tobago, Citadels... all quite different. meeple

I am not the type who'd eat a strawberry doughnut, a lemon doughnut, then a sesame doughnut, a mini doughnut with rare spices, a giant doughnut, etc.
I'd rather have a bit of sushi, than a pizza slice, then grapes, then beef jerky, then a boiled egg with mayo... laugh

So I am afraid of this being too similar to TM. ninja

Too bad a local BG shop-club is a fantasy non-existent option. soblue Even getting players is hard, hardly anyone knows about modern boardgames unless it's enthusiasts like me convince them.
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Trevor Taylor
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It does sound like a try before you buy to me.
I love Scythe, but didn't like Terra Mystica, but they are fairly similar. I didn't like TM because of the thematic disconnect and how there was so much to track from other players between turns. Scythe, although still technically a (very beautiful) cube pusher. What you need to track is supremely simplified as the few things tracked on players own boards mostly only relates to them and the stuff you do want to track is actually all on the board (including any resources). Also I feel more like I'm doing the stated actions in this game.

By the way I also really like Arkham Horror, which is quite a different game, but the engine building in Scythe feels more like the character building in AH than mindless maths.
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Trevor Taylor
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Iori_Yagami wrote:
Hmmm, I also like to get different types of games, for bigger breadth.
So, there is Netrunner, Carcassonne, Arkham, Coup, 7 Wonders, Puerto Rico, Star Realms, Tobago, Citadels... all quite different. meeple

I am not the type who'd eat a strawberry doughnut, a lemon doughnut, then a sesame doughnut, a mini doughnut with rare spices, a giant doughnut, etc.
I'd rather have a bit of sushi, than a pizza slice, then grapes, then beef jerky, then a boiled egg with mayo... laugh

So I am afraid of this being too similar to TM. ninja

Too bad a local BG shop-club is a fantasy non-existent option. soblue Even getting players is hard, hardly anyone knows about modern boardgames unless it's enthusiasts like me convince them.


If you can find someone (preferably in your time-zone) to teach you. You can play it quite well on https://tabletopia.com/games/scythe
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Mike Beiter
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The mechanics are similar to Terra Mystica but it's different enough to own both.

But it's nothing like Arkham Horror. Thats apples and oranges.
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Adria D
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negatrev wrote:
It does sound like a try before you buy to me.
I love Scythe, but didn't like Terra Mystica, but they are fairly similar. I didn't like TM because of the thematic disconnect and how there was so much to track from other players between turns. Scythe, although still technically a (very beautiful) cube pusher. What you need to track is supremely simplified as the few things tracked on players own boards mostly only relates to them and the stuff you do want to track is actually all on the board (including any resources). Also I feel more like I'm doing the stated actions in this game.

By the way I also really like Arkham Horror, which is quite a different game, but the engine building in Scythe feels more like the character building in AH than mindless maths.

I agree with this. I'm not a fan of Terra Mystica, but I love Scythe.
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Jerry Martin
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I love all three games.

I would say Scythe is Much closer to TM. In fact I am quite sure that TM was at least some inspiration for Scythe.

As other have said. Extremely little overlap with Arkham. The only thing is the encounter cards and they are fairly disconnected as well.
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Brian Long
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I dunno what on earth it has to do with Arkham Horror, but it has a lot to do with TM. If you "hate" TM I don't know why you would seek out Scythe. There are a million games that /don't/ seem principally inspired by TM, which Scythe does.
 
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Trevor Taylor
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Syvanis wrote:
I love all three games.

I would say Scythe is Much closer to TM. In fact I am quite sure that TM was at least some inspiration for Scythe.

As other have said. Extremely little overlap with Arkham. The only thing is the encounter cards and they are fairly disconnected as well.


To be fair he wasn't exactly saying the were all alike. He was saying what he didn't and did like and if that helped steer him towards liking a third game or not.

I could say I hate peppers, but I love Football. Would I like Spain?
It might not be the best comparison, but people who hate peppers and love football could weigh in on the reasons for those and how they feel about Spain.

PS. I agree Scythe is more like TM than AH, but I am fond of AH and Scythe, but not TM and so it turns our the comparisons he chose might work if my reasoning matched his in any way.
 
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Jerry Martin
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I wasn't saying he did. I was just explain how they are related. Hopefully that will help answer his question.
 
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Jamey Stegmaier
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Terra Mystica served as a major inspiration for Scythe--both are engine-building games built around rewarding players. Kemet is the other major inspiration for Scythe.

Based on what you describe ("I do like Arkham Horror somewhat with encounters, mysteries, cool happenings and atmosphere, and many many many unique cards and chits."), I think you will enjoy the encounter cards in Scythe...and that's pretty much it. Instead of Scythe, I'd recommend TIME Stories.
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David Vestal
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I haven't played TM, but I've heard them compared, and the impression I get is that they are strategically similar but don't have the same mechanics. Scythe doesn't really have these features you are mentioning. You don't really "run out" of resources, and you don't really sit around and count them since players are typically trading or producing 2-6 resources at a time and spending them in 1-4 at a time.

There is an area control component, but it's building isn't a central component of the game, and some players might not build any buildings before the game ends. So it's not really comparable to the "blocking" in something like TM. Players get points based on the hexes the control at the end of the game, they can get points from winning combats, and players have a minor goal of getting to the center of the board to unlock an additional action option.

Is your specific complaint in the shape of the hexes? Castles doesn't really involve "movement", and while Scythe uses a hex shape, most of the time you are only moving 1 or 2 spaces at a time. This isn't really like wargames where there are a wide range of speed values with some units capable of moving some combination of 10 spaces in a turn.

Some people have compared the game to Bloodrage, if you've played that. I try to describe it to people as spending the first 2/3rds of the game as a multiplayer solitaire Euro-style game about engine building and efficiency, and the last 1/3rd in area control/combat. So, there's some conflict involved, but like Bloodrage, it's all about getting the most points.

Edit: OP also expressed a strong love of Castles of Burgundy. He didn't just say he hates TM, he listed some specific things in TM that, in my experience, don't really apply to Scythe.
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PJ Cunningham
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I hated Terra Mystica. My pet name for it is Terra-ble Mistaka. The main reason, I suspect, is that its too abstract for me to care. I'm not inspired to build this or that wierd-shaped wood block. There are too many icons and not enough story. It's just a dry exercise of pushing cubes around.

On the other hand, I love Scythe more than chocolate doughnuts. Ok, not more than chocolate, but maybe more than cream-filled. It's a lot more thematic and fuels my brain's storytelling cortex. There are little plastic dudes. And it looks and feels like a wargame, even though its not.

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that Matt
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ironregime wrote:
My pet name for it is Terra-ble Mistaka.

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Joshua Comeau
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I think it's possible you'd like it if you enjoyed all sharknado movies but dislike it if dolphin watching is not your thing. Hope this helps.
 
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Jim Jones
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I guess there are similarities to TM. Honestly, until it was mentioned here, I never would have thought TM had any influence on Scythe. They play very differently and have a very different appeal.

TM is an extremely tight, heavy resource engine that requires optimizing each round to do well. Scythe is an resource engine builder / area control / race game.

I always felt that it was Kemet meets Euphoria with engine building instead of worker placement. It is a thematic euro with less conflict than you would think for an area control game.

It depends on what appeals to you in a game. Is it the theme and story it tells or the mechanics and decisions you make? Even though I said Scythe is thematic, it weighs more on the mechanics side of the equation.

You really need to watch some reviews and gameplay run throughs to see if it has any appeal. Don't get lured by the shiny chrome it has to offer. It is a really good game, but it might not appeal to you as much as you think.
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Oliver Kinne
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ironregime wrote:
I hated Terra Mystica. My pet name for it is Terra-ble Mistaka. The main reason, I suspect, is that its too abstract for me to care. I'm not inspired to build this or that wierd-shaped wood block. There are too many icons and not enough story. It's just a dry exercise of pushing cubes around.

On the other hand, I love Scythe more than chocolate doughnuts. Ok, not more than chocolate, but maybe more than cream-filled. It's a lot more thematic and fuels my brain's storytelling cortex. There are little plastic dudes. And it looks and feels like a wargame, even though its not.


I also don't like Terra Mystica because it's such a huge mix of different themes. We have terraforming (sci-fi?), magic (spells, flying carpets, etc., so very fantasy), building (neither sci-fi nor fantasy), plus the cult tracks (is that fantasy?) - all meshed together somehow.

That's why I'm looking forward to Clans of Caledonia, which is very much like Terra Mystica, but it's all nicely meshed together into one theme.

I know, it's funny how themes and background story matter these days. Nobody complained about chess or draughts not having a theme or background story.

Yet, when it comes to tabletop games for me these days, there has to be a consistent theme.
 
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Oliver Kinne
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jameystegmaier wrote:
Terra Mystica served as a major inspiration for Scythe--both are engine-building games built around rewarding players. Kemet is the other major inspiration for Scythe.

Based on what you describe ("I do like Arkham Horror somewhat with encounters, mysteries, cool happenings and atmosphere, and many many many unique cards and chits."), I think you will enjoy the encounter cards in Scythe...and that's pretty much it. Instead of Scythe, I'd recommend TIME Stories.

That's interesting. I never thought Terra Mystica and Scythe were anything alike. To me they're completely different games.

So I really don't like TM, but I absolutely love Sythe - maybe that answers the original question?
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Agnese K
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I just got it and so far it is cool.

Rules actually are easy (everything is there on the board) and first play is enjoyable, which is huge. If you are worried about getting friends to play with, I can imagine this game being the one played with my casuals at longer evenings. Game even comes with little strategy cards for first play. As I don't have much time for heavy games and my friends are filthy casuals as well, I value this a lot. This definitely is not going to gather dust (Like RuneWars does *sniff*).

Only parallel I can draw with "Arkham Horror" is how thematic Scythe is. It feels Euro-ish, but it is a beautifully thematic as well - you really feel like there is Cold War going on. Flavor text Scythe comes with actually is pretty accurate.

Other than that it is hard to compare. This is a very different beast.
 
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Ken Brown
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I love Scythe, and enjoy TM. Haven't played Arkham Horror yet. But here are some similarities and differences that may help you.

Similarities:
Player boards with cubes and buildings that give you more/different stuff after you uncover them
You get and spend resources to do stuff
Map is made up of different types of hexes, and it's asymmetrical
It's competitive

That list is not exhaustive, and only a little sarcastic. Those are the key similarities, which includes the shape of the spaces and it isn't co-op.

Differences:
Player interaction in TM is limited to boxing opponents out of territory (including the cult track), buying limited shop items, and sacrificing VP for power when an opponent builds next to you. All pretty indirect.
Player interaction in Scythe involves combat, which allows players to gain Stars (worth VP and count towards endgame), gain/lose territory, and gain/lose resources. There's also Recruits, which allow you to gain resources when a player to your left or right perform certain actions, regardless of where any of you are on the board.
TM has permanent hex control; in Scythe, territory can be gained and lost.
TM has rounds where players take turns until they pass; Scythe has a 'normal' turn structure.
TM ends after 6 rounds; Scythe ends when one player achieves six Stars
In TM each player has a pool of resources that replenishes between rounds; in Scythe you take actions to gain resources and resources are kept on the map.
In TM, the resources you gain change when you upgrade buildings (i.e. build a temple, lose a trading post); in Scythe anything you add to the game only increases future benefits.

In short, both of them are engine builders with multiple resources to gain and manage, and multiple ways to win, but that's about it. Scythe is a much simpler engine; it only improves as you build it and it never drastically and suddenly transforms like TM. Scarcity is handled differently too. While it's possible to build yourself a bad engine in Scythe, it doesn't have nearly the swingy-ness of TM, and all players generally progress at a similar pace, so it's engaging the whole time. Layered on top of Scythe is combat, which can be lucrative but is incredibly costly. The combat is a bluffing game, so it is rarely guaranteed and it's easy to make sub-optimal choices, which is why Scythe isn't a war game. Combat usually only happens a few times towards the end of the game, and it's very difficult to sustain an aggressive strategy.

I like Scythe a lot more than Terra Mystica; on top of that, if it's difficult for you to find players, Scythe has an excellent solo mode that's well worth the price of admission.
 
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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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@Ken, it could be argued that gaining stuff from the actions of your opponents via recruits in Scythe, is similar to gaining power from build and upgrade actions of your opponents in TM.

Thank you for the kind words about our Scythe solo mode, they're much appreciated .
 
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Ken Brown
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mortenmdk wrote:
@Ken, it could be argued that gaining stuff from the actions of your opponents via recruits in Scythe, is similar to gaining power from build and upgrade actions of your opponents in TM.


They're both what you'd call the follow mechanic I suppose, and I almost mentioned them in the similarities column, but there's something about each of them that is so different that it feels more like a difference than a similarity. I was having a hard time articulating exactly what though. Perhaps it's simply that it's the most direct player interaction in TM, but the least direct in Scythe.

mortenmdk wrote:
Thank you for the kind words about our Scythe solo mode, they're much appreciated .


I have loved modern board and card games since high school, but couldn't really afford them then. This year my Heroclix group became something of a board game group too, but I still don't get to play all that often. Scythe was my first modern board game where playing solo didn't mean playing co-op two player by yourself. Your AI opened a new world of solo gaming to me. I hate to gush, because it feels like brown-nosing, but Scythe and its Automa has genuinely brought more fun into my life, so thank you!

Of course, my collection has since exploded on account of it too laugh
But though my monthly budget has taken a blow, I'm never bored!
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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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SepiaPenguin03 wrote:
mortenmdk wrote:
@Ken, it could be argued that gaining stuff from the actions of your opponents via recruits in Scythe, is similar to gaining power from build and upgrade actions of your opponents in TM.


They're both what you'd call the follow mechanic I suppose, and I almost mentioned them in the similarities column, but there's something about each of them that is so different that it feels more like a difference than a similarity. I was having a hard time articulating exactly what though. Perhaps it's simply that it's the most direct player interaction in TM, but the least direct in Scythe.

mortenmdk wrote:
Thank you for the kind words about our Scythe solo mode, they're much appreciated .


I have loved modern board and card games since high school, but couldn't really afford them then. This year my Heroclix group became something of a board game group too, but I still don't get to play all that often. Scythe was my first modern board game where playing solo didn't mean playing co-op two player by yourself. Your AI opened a new world of solo gaming to me. I hate to gush, because it feels like brown-nosing, but Scythe and its Automa has genuinely brought more fun into my life, so thank you!

Of course, my collection has since exploded on account of it too laugh
But though my monthly budget has taken a blow, I'm never bored!


Thank you for putting a smile on my face. Bringing fun to fellow gamers is what my work is all about and bringing new people to the world of solo gaming is one of my goals.
 
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HenningK
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I don't see Terra Mystica and Scythe as being very similar games actually, they feel quite different to me - with Arkham Horror being *a lot* more different again. For what it's worth, I absolutely love Terra Mystica and find Scythe mediocre.

Based on this:
Iori_Yagami wrote:
Always running out of resources, cant build, and all that blocking, when you can't get anywhere to build.
Also, sitting around and counting resourcing is boring AF.
Also, hex moving/distance counting is something I always loathed in games.

...

I do like Arkham Horror somewhat with encounters, mysteries, cool happenings and atmosphere, and many many many unique cards and chits.
Obviously, from GAMEPLAY aspect only. I am not paying for pictures and plastic figures.


, I suspect you won't like Scythe very much. The game is a resource conversion race requiring hard optimization via counting and planning ahead. You won't have many encounter cards (a handful per game), and they mostly come down to "Do you want to take resource A, B, or C?".

Scythe's production is amazing, the theme is unique (I personally don't care about it), and the artwork is good (though not amazing IMHO). But the gameplay is quite mechanical, so I suppose you won't like it much.
 
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