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Subject: Yet another post about The Dice Tower rss

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Balaji Iyengar
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This is going to be a pretty straight forward rant/question.

When the Dice Tower posts a review video, I as a consumer/subscriber have a slight inclination of what to expect.

1) If Tom's reviewing it - He hates cube-pushers, set-collection, tile placement, and movement. Favors heavy euros.

2) If Sam's reviewing it - Hates non-thematic games, light games.
Love minis, fantasy-themed games, and slightly heavier games

3) If Zee's reviewing it - Loves slightly quicker games, games which play solo, abstract is ok.

Now here is my main gripe/concern. This morning I saw a review video from the Dice Tower - reviewing Photosynthesis.
THEY HAVE ALREADY REVIEWED IT!
(Pardon the caps, but it is intentional)

I hate it when the games which have already been reviewed by the Dice tower gets reviewed over, and over, and over again, BY THEMSELVES!

Nothing against other DT reviewers like Bryan Drake, Santi, Ryan Metzler, Jason Levine, Chaz Marler.

But please review games which have not been already reviewed.
If you still want to express your views about the said game, don't do it under the Dice Tower banner. Do it under your own banner.

My brain isn't wired that way. If I want reviews about a game, I'd look up different reviewers like SU&SD, GameboyGeek, NoPun, DT, Undead Viking etc. If I watch one review from DT, I am not going to watch another review from DT for the same game.

My question to DT is this. What is the point of posting multiple review videos for the same game? Would it not make sense to explore more games?
 
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Joe Kundlak
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Ahem, why do you need to tell anyone what he has to review? I never saw a postulation that "The Dice Tower channel will only post ONE SINGLE review of each game, EVER."

I believe Tom gives the Dice Tower reviewers free reign in this matter, maybe barring cases of posting multiple reviews between the main three "heads" of Tom-Sam-Zee (especially as they have Miami Dice for that). But even in this case, there might have been instances where two of those three guys each posted their own reaview of a game already, do not remember myself.

And I also believe The Dice Tower is exploring so many games in their channel, as the next three or five such channels combined. So I see no reason to "explore more" in this case.
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Jeremy Gray
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Wow. Lot of angst there. No one is forcing you to watch any reviews you don't care for. I, for one, appreciate multiple viewpoints on the same game, even (especially?) if it's on the same channel. They effectively do the same thing on any joint review (Every Game is Awesome, Miami Dice, Double Trouble, etc). How is more opinions a bad thing?
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Jeremy Gray
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odinMithrandir wrote:
Nothing against other DT reviewers like Bryan Drake, Santi, Ryan Metzler, Jason Levine, Chaz Marler.

But please review games which have not been already reviewed.
If you still want to express your views about the said game, don't do it under the Dice Tower banner. Do it under your own banner.


I think Tom Vasel is the one who gets to decide if/when the Dice Tower "banner" is to be used. And nothing gets posted to that channel if it's not "approved" to be there. And why should the Dice Tower umbrella include other reviews/reviewers if they only provide content for stuff the "big 3" don't cover?
 
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Nittanyfan12
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odinMithrandir wrote:

My brain isn't wired that way. If I want reviews about a game, I'd look up different reviewers like SU&SD, GameboyGeek, NoPun, DT, Undead Viking etc. If I watch one review from DT, I am not going to watch another review from DT for the same game.

Then don't.

I think you kind of answered your own question by detailing the different gaming preferences of the Dice Tower reviewers. It can be useful to compare the opinions of different reviewers on a game when you know how their gaming preferences align (or don't align) with yours. Just because all of the Dice Tower reviewers have the same employer doesn't change the fact that they have different gaming preferences and opinions on games.
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Eric R
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odinMithrandir wrote:
When the Dice Tower posts a review video, I as a consumer/subscriber have a slight inclination of what to expect.


I think maybe that this quote from your OP answers your question: not all games fit nicely into one "box" or another. If there is a medium-heavy game with a solid solo component, wouldn't it be interesting to hear both Tom and Zee's impression of it, to give you a better idea of how it plays?

Regardless of which banner the review is posted under, they're still all unique viewpoints. If Quinns (from SU&SD) posted a 'guest review' for The Dice Tower, would it somehow change what kind of games he likes? No; it might change the format of the review slightly, but that's about it.

 
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No One
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odinMithrandir wrote:
This is going to be a pretty straight forward rant/question....
Now here is my main gripe/concern...
I hate it when...
don't do it under the Dice Tower banner.


I think you may have temporarily forgotten the "spread love" logo above your avatar.

whistle

~V
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Steven Davies
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As rants go this is....well I dont have anything positive to say, so I'll bypass that.

Look, Tom doesnt exactly hand out review assignments, he allows people to review whatever they wish, and if that means multiple reviews on one game then so be it, this can more often be the case when contributors review as they are not DT staff. Of course Tom could refuse to publish repeat reviews, but what would be the benefit of that? Its not as if those reviews are taking anything away from DT, these aren't being done at the expense of other reviews. Besides, most people like to have a range of opinions from different reviewers to collate more data before deciding for themselves.

Also, its in pretty poor taste to complain about something like this right now, they havent exactly been in position to do anything else this past week.
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Michael Tyree
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Hold on, engaging sarcasm engine...

If only there was a way to see beforehand who is doing the review and/or what game is being reviewed? Why must I view every video produced under the DT banner? Curses!!

But seriously, DT is a pretty big umbrella and there are a lot of reviewers encompassed within it. Multiple perspectives from different reviewers is a good thing, and that isn't really much different from going to other channels anyway. So long as you know peoples' preferences/perspectives, any review can be useful.
 
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Balaji Iyengar
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Ok I need to clarify a couple of things first up before this thread gets derailed and I'm grossly misunderstood:

1) No one is forcing me to watch DT videos, I can choose to not watch them -
Yes. True. But ever since I discovered the modern day designer board gaming world, the Dice Tower has been one of my primary sources for discovering the new and upcoming games. I consider myself to be a fan of the Dice Tower. So with fandom, comes expectations. When I see the same game, it puts me off because it's just the same content. I've grown to expect new content from them on a routine basis.

2) Different reviewers may have different opinions - Exactly my point.
And the second, third, and every subsequent reviewers' opinions will never be heard as much as the first reviewer's opinion.

3) I'm sorry if I sounded too angry. I had a horrible drive to work this morning (was stuck in traffic for an hour), and was missing my morning coffee. I'm a human now.
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April W
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I've never had a problem with them doing this- they each offer a different perspective. Plus, I'm pretty sure DT reviews a larger variety of games than any other reviewer out there, so I'll allow them a couple repeats now and then.
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Steve Wrenn
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Yes, they each tend to have their own tastes. I've also seen them say that if you like so and so, this game might be for you, or I can see why other people like it. But it is useful to see multiple points of view, especially negative ones, so I'm not dropping money I'll regret. And, ultimately, if you don't want to watch any videos, don't watch them. There are plenty of videos that I can tell the theme doesn't interest me, so I skip it.
 
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Bill Cook
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How evil of them - posting different opinions on the same game. You should definitely ask for your money back.

PS - you do realize that Tom, Sam, Zee and the Dice Tower Studios just went through a hurricane, don't you. They have massive cleanup going on. Oh, and no power. Tom's actually apologized for not getting his normal share of videos up. Personally, I think tom has nothing to apologize for, but it sounds like you want one so go check it out. Without being able to get his normal level of reviews up, he has turned to some of his contributors for their reviews this week.
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Jeremy Gray
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Thanks for a bit more of a rational response. But I did want to provide a little follow up:

odinMithrandir wrote:

1) No one is forcing me to watch DT videos, I can choose to not watch them -
Yes. True. But ever since I discovered the modern day designer board gaming world, the Dice Tower has been one of my primary sources for discovering the new and upcoming games. I consider myself to be a fan of the Dice Tower. So with fandom, comes expectations. When I see the same game, it puts me off because it's just the same content. I've grown to expect new content from them on a routine basis.


The expectations you created within yourself for that channel as a result of your fandom are your responsibility/problem alone. It would be one thing if they bait-and-switched on you, saying they would provide their service in a certain way (and thus creating those precise expectations), and then diverging from that path altogether. In this instance, though, you created your own idea of what they should do and when they violate your ideal, you get upset. That's not their fault; it's yours.

odinMithrandir wrote:

2) Different reviewers may have different opinions - Exactly my point.
And the second, third, and every subsequent reviewers' opinions will never be heard as much as the first reviewer's opinion.


Again, it's up to you to determine how much you "hear" each individual reviewer. You can choose not to view any "first" review and only focus in on certain reviewers. Or you can consume all of the reviews and make your judgments on a game after watching them all. It's really up to you to decide. The Dice Tower has been unabashed in wanting to provide a ton of content (a "library" is what Vasel has mentioned previously, I believe) and inviting you to consume whatever portions of their content you wish to. They don't expect anyone to watch every single video, listen to every podcast, etc. They want to provide something for everyone, not everything for one person.
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Shaun Morris
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Because it creates a central point for people to go to watch reviewers and get their opinion.

Maybe someone wants multiple opinions on Photosynthesis so they go to The Dice Tower, plug the name in and now they can check out multiple reviews of the game without having to navigate away from The Dice Tower.

Doing the reviews under The Dice Tower also gives the lesser known personalities more traffic. Meaning, Photosynthesis is a hot game right now, with a lot of people looking for reviews on it. One of the first places many people go for reviews is The Dice Tower. Now they see Chaz's review under The Dice Tower banner and check it out. If this is the first time they've seen one of Chaz's reviews maybe they like him and go look up his channel and subscribe to it thus giving him a few additional subscribers.

More to the point though, what does it matter why they do it? The Dice Tower produces so much content that it's easy to just skip the videos you don't have an interest in. No one is forcing you to watch EVERY SINGLE video that gets published under The Dice Tower banner.
 
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Graham Walker
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Balaji - As should be obvious by now, you are pretty much all alone with your concerns here.
 
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Jerry Martin
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odinMithrandir wrote:
Ok I need to clarify a couple of things first up before this thread gets derailed and I'm grossly misunderstood:

1) No one is forcing me to watch DT videos, I can choose to not watch them -
Yes. True. But ever since I discovered the modern day designer board gaming world, the Dice Tower has been one of my primary sources for discovering the new and upcoming games. I consider myself to be a fan of the Dice Tower. So with fandom, comes expectations. When I see the same game, it puts me off because it's just the same content. I've grown to expect new content from them on a routine basis.

2) Different reviewers may have different opinions - Exactly my point.
And the second, third, and every subsequent reviewers' opinions will never be heard as much as the first reviewer's opinion.

3) I'm sorry if I sounded too angry. I had a horrible drive to work this morning (was stuck in traffic for an hour), and was missing my morning coffee. I'm a human now.


1- I think you are wrong in saying "it's just the same content" it is a different point of view.

2- How is that? I imagine many people have their favorite reviewer and are excited to see how they felt about the game.

3- I love you, it is ok.
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Balaji Iyengar
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morris9597 wrote:

Doing the reviews under The Dice Tower also gives the lesser known personalities more traffic. Meaning, Photosynthesis is a hot game right now, with a lot of people looking for reviews on it. One of the first places many people go for reviews is The Dice Tower. Now they see Chaz's review under The Dice Tower banner and check it out. If this is the first time they've seen one of Chaz's reviews maybe they like him and go look up his channel and subscribe to it thus giving him a few additional subscribers.

More to the point though, what does it matter why they do it? The Dice Tower produces so much content that it's easy to just skip the videos you don't have an interest in. No one is forcing you to watch EVERY SINGLE video that gets published under The Dice Tower banner.


This actually reinforces my opinion in a slightly different way. Let me illustrate.
SU&SD is known for their out-of-the-box antics and wack-a-doo approach. I watched their review for Isle of Skye and ended up with a recipe for butter cookies. Highly hilarious and I'd highly recommend that video.

I watched Sam's review of Codenames : Pictures and it was hilarious seeing him grumble silently under his breath.

Each reviewer has a style and taste. If the other DT contributors hope to become successful on their own, they have to branch out.

Steve Broadfoot wrote:
Also, its in pretty poor taste to complain about something like this right now, they havent exactly been in position to do anything else this past week.


Agreed. I apologize. But this is not just for photosynthesis, DT has done it for so many games in the past.


gerwalker wrote:
Balaji - As should be obvious by now, you are pretty much all alone with your concerns here.

***sigh** I know. But if it's any consolation, the number of views on YT for ever 2nd/3rd review for a game has significantly lower number of views than the review which was posted first. Doesn't that say anything?



Okay, okay guys you have conveyed your point.
I can choose to ignore repeat reviews. Skip past them. DT is a huge banner. All true and valid. Signed and accepted.

But - Maybe DT can do something different when posting a 2nd or 3rd review to make audience like me watch it? Like a quick play-through, unboxing, how to make insert for this game, anything! Oh well.. one can wish right?
 
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Bill Cook
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You want something different in a 2nd/3rd review. How about is a different person gave their opinion?
 
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Joe Kundlak
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One can always wish. And on the other hand, you can always contribute.
There is not much else to say.

But next time, please try to sound less entitled.
 
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Sergio Perez
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odinMithrandir wrote:
Tom...Favors heavy euros.


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Er, don't watch it?

Simple as that.
 
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odinMithrandir wrote:
...
1) If Tom's reviewing it - He hates cube-pushers, set-collection, tile placement, and movement. Favors heavy euros.

2) If Sam's reviewing it - Hates non-thematic games, light games.
Love minis, fantasy-themed games, and slightly heavier games

3) If Zee's reviewing it - Loves slightly quicker games, games which play solo, abstract is ok.

...

My question to DT is this. What is the point of posting multiple review videos for the same game? Would it not make sense to explore more games?
Your answer lies in your own post.

Some people may not always agree with Tom. Some may relate more to Sam. Then you have Zee. Just because they may review a game one way, doesn't mean that another contributor didn't have a point of view on something. Especially if they played it together or even at different times. Because of how you've pegged them, you can almost expect an honest opinion on a certain game within the criteria of what they like and hate. That said, it speaks even MORE SO when they like something in what you consider their likes and dislikes.

Take Mansion of Madness and Gloomhaven. Tom HATES solo games. Never saw the point of them, thinks of them at puzzles. Then along comes these two games and he expresses how much he really really likes them.

Yes, sometimes they can have group think and they may all be saying the same thing, but at times its even the subtle nuisances that make all the difference.

They are and still a business. I don't want to say they have quotas or maybe something happens where Tom doesn't believe a review put out by one of the other two and he may check a game out. It wouldn't surprise me if they do see that by putting out so many videos a week they do produce more revenue via Youtube stream revenue as well as helping publishers out...who in turn repay their services by supplying new games or promos or whatever else they may end up with. How many times do you hear "This trip/meeting/booth sponsored by <company X>"

Finally, can more points of view really hurt? If all three are chiming about a game, yes that may be a reason to find another avenue on something, but at times it really SAYS something if all three are willing to do a video (although I've personally never seen a review by all three, just by other members in the Dice Tower community - who also don't always see what Tom, Sam and Zee sees.)
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Curt Carpenter
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Balaji, I'm failing to see how this impacts you negatively, at all. If the same game is reviewed again, either (a) you notice that it's a repeat, or (b) you don't. Under (a), you now have the option to compare the review to previous reviews, and apply your astute observations about who likes what into your assessment of whether you might like it. Under (b), well, you don't notice, so no harm no foul?

Really, I'm just trying to grok why multiple reviews is a problem to you.
 
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Balaji Iyengar
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And yes... From now on, I am going to take everyone's advice and choose to ignore any content from DT that is feel is kinda repeated.

But it was just a rant and what I felt at a personal level.
Did not mean to get preachy.


And after reading all the comments I received:
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