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Subject: Spot transaction question rss

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Colby Brown
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From page 4 of the book:
Quote:
A Spot Transaction is always between two players and is always at the lowest but simplest possible rate of exchange.


I thought that the rate of exchange was always well-defined by the position of the currency pair trackers. Does this rule mean that all traded amounts (both stronger and weaker) must be whole numbers? If we must exchange exactly one buck of one currency for another, then why is the "1JPY for 0.50USD" not allowed?

Super excited to read through the rulebook this morning! Thanks for any clarification you can offer.
 
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Toby Yasutake
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The rules don't out right say this specifically, but by the example in the rules, this is clear: the trade must be for a single buck of the stronger currency for the exchange amount of the weaker currency.

It says "A Spot Transaction involves one player trading one buck (exactly) of one Currency" but it does not say specifically that you must trade the stronger... because you can either be giving or receiving the stronger currency. Still the amount you can trade is fixed to the simple ratio shown on the board.
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Taylor Smith
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Yeah. That seems like the logical conclusion, and seems backed by a strict reading of:

rulebook §7 ¶1 wrote:
A Spot Transaction involves one player trading one buck (exactly) of one Currency to another player for the associated amount of another Currency, as defined by the current value of those two Currencies within their Currency Pair


So I believe the only possible trades for a pair AB are A→B and B→A at exactly the values the current marker is at. By the design of the ratios used in the game, this is perfectly equivalent to what Toby said: it's always 1 buck of the stronger currency, regardless of trade direction.

The line about "lowest but simplest" strikes me just as a redundancy to clarify that you cannot use the exchange rate as a general ratio or multiplier; you can only ever trade exactly the printed values.
 
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Tom Russell
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Toby is correct.

This was a tricky rule to write, and I had hoped that the example in the second paragraph of that rules section would provide the needed clarity:

Quote:
A Spot Transaction involves one player trading one buck (exactly) of one Currency to another player for the associated amount of another Currency, as defined by the current value of those two Currencies within their Currency Pair.

For example, if 1 USD is worth 2 JPY, the acting player can trade 1 USD to another player in exchange for 2 JPY, or can trade 2 JPY to another player in exchange for 1 USD.


So if it's my turn, and I want to do a spot transaction, I can either give the other player 1 buck of the stronger currency and he gives me the equivalent of the weaker, OR he can give me 1 buck of the stronger and I give him the equivalent of the weaker.
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Tom Russell
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tdhsmith wrote:
Yeah. That seems like the logical conclusion, and seems backed by a strict reading of:

rulebook §7 ¶1 wrote:
A Spot Transaction involves one player trading one buck (exactly) of one Currency to another player for the associated amount of another Currency, as defined by the current value of those two Currencies within their Currency Pair


So I believe the only possible trades for a pair AB are A→B and B→A at exactly the values the current marker is at. By the design of the ratios used in the game, this is perfectly equivalent to what Toby said: it's always 1 buck of the stronger currency, regardless of trade direction.

The line about "lowest but simplest" strikes me just as a redundancy to clarify that you cannot use the exchange rate as a general ratio or multiplier; you can only ever trade exactly the printed values.


Yes, exactly. To do a bigger trade, you need to make a Contract with the Bank, it's not between players.

This also keeps negotiation time to something of a minimum, as you're not going to fiddling with this amount versus that amount, since it's fixed.
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Ben Draper
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As written, this prohibits a spot trade between a currency pair with a fractional exchange rate (1.5, 2.5, and 3.5), yes?
 
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Tom Russell
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BennyD wrote:
As written, this prohibits a spot trade between a currency pair with a fractional exchange rate (1.5, 2.5, and 3.5), yes?


That's certainly not the intention. If 1 USD is worth 2.5 JPY, then you can trade 1 USD for 2.5 JPY, or 2.5 JPY for 1 USD; this is the "lowest but simplest possible rate of exchange".
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Colby Brown
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tomrussell wrote:
BennyD wrote:
As written, this prohibits a spot trade between a currency pair with a fractional exchange rate (1.5, 2.5, and 3.5), yes?


That's certainly not the intention. If 1 USD is worth 2.5 JPY, then you can trade 1 USD for 2.5 JPY, or 2.5 JPY for 1 USD; this is the "lowest but simplest possible rate of exchange".

I think my confusion is around the phrase "lowest but simplest". In the example from the rulebook, 1 USD is worth 2 JPY. If I wanted to do a spot transaction from JPY to USD, I'm not sure what makes 2 JPY --> 1 USD any "lower but simpler" than 1 JPY --> 0.5 USD. Both involve a unit amount in at least one of the currencies, so in my mind they are equally simple, but the later is "lower".
 
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Tom Russell
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brobo wrote:
tomrussell wrote:
BennyD wrote:
As written, this prohibits a spot trade between a currency pair with a fractional exchange rate (1.5, 2.5, and 3.5), yes?


That's certainly not the intention. If 1 USD is worth 2.5 JPY, then you can trade 1 USD for 2.5 JPY, or 2.5 JPY for 1 USD; this is the "lowest but simplest possible rate of exchange".

I think my confusion is around the phrase "lowest but simplest". In the example from the rulebook, 1 USD is worth 2 JPY. If I wanted to do a spot transaction from JPY to USD, I'm not sure what makes 2 JPY --> 1 USD any "lower but simpler" than 1 JPY --> 0.5 USD. Both involve a unit amount in at least one of the currencies, so in my mind they are equally simple, but the later is "lower".


I'll see about trying to re-word the rule. The intention is that the "simplest" rate of exchange is the rate of exchange on the board - the one that requires no calculation at all.
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Colby Brown
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tomrussell wrote:
brobo wrote:
tomrussell wrote:
BennyD wrote:
As written, this prohibits a spot trade between a currency pair with a fractional exchange rate (1.5, 2.5, and 3.5), yes?


That's certainly not the intention. If 1 USD is worth 2.5 JPY, then you can trade 1 USD for 2.5 JPY, or 2.5 JPY for 1 USD; this is the "lowest but simplest possible rate of exchange".

I think my confusion is around the phrase "lowest but simplest". In the example from the rulebook, 1 USD is worth 2 JPY. If I wanted to do a spot transaction from JPY to USD, I'm not sure what makes 2 JPY --> 1 USD any "lower but simpler" than 1 JPY --> 0.5 USD. Both involve a unit amount in at least one of the currencies, so in my mind they are equally simple, but the later is "lower".


I'll see about trying to re-word the rule. The intention is that the "simplest" rate of exchange is the rate of exchange on the board - the one that requires no calculation at all.

That makes a lot of sense and I think that's a pretty good way of wording it. Thanks for the clarification!
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So any fractional conversions will necessarily be in the weaker currency, if I'm understanding this right?

'Simplest' here meaning exactly 1 unit of the stronger currency must be offered, 'lowest' meaning the exchange cannot scale or multiply from that standard.

If that's the case, don't the possible spot transactions simply become a function of finding the current marker for the relevant currency pair?

Edit: I see based on the above my conclusions are redundant.
 
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Kenneth Barrese
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I feel like it is clear to say a spot transaction always involves trading one unit of the stronger currency for the equivalent value in another currency, with the active player allowed to either give or receive the unit of the stronger currency.
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Ben Draper
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tomrussell wrote:
BennyD wrote:
As written, this prohibits a spot trade between a currency pair with a fractional exchange rate (1.5, 2.5, and 3.5), yes?


That's certainly not the intention. If 1 USD is worth 2.5 JPY, then you can trade 1 USD for 2.5 JPY, or 2.5 JPY for 1 USD; this is the "lowest but simplest possible rate of exchange".


Sorry, my mistake. I missed that there are 1/2 buck pieces in the components section.
 
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Tom Russell
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No problem. These games are significantly complex that everyone misses something, especially on a first read. About the only game of mine that hasn't gotten a rule question is Northern Pacific, and I think that's more because there are only two rules in the game. If I had introduced a third, it'd be threads upon threads.
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Toby Yasutake
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Tecmagus wrote:
I feel like it is clear to say a spot transaction always involves trading one unit of the stronger currency for the equivalent value in another currency, with the active player allowed to either give or receive the unit of the stronger currency.

I second this wording... because I made it up. It would be really cool if I wrote part of the rules, even if it was just an edit of a single line.

Very excited for the game by the way.
 
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Rich James
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tomrussell wrote:
This also keeps negotiation time to something of a minimum, as you're not going to fiddling with this amount versus that amount, since it's fixed.

Woah! I managed to miss that these are negotiable! I had thought that the acting player could always make a spot transaction. Looking back, I now see that I somehow managed to misunderstand the last sentence of rule 7 as referencing only suggested transactions from Other players.
 
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Tom Russell
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arjisme wrote:
tomrussell wrote:
This also keeps negotiation time to something of a minimum, as you're not going to fiddling with this amount versus that amount, since it's fixed.

Woah! I managed to miss that these are negotiable! I had thought that the acting player could always make a spot transaction. Looking back, I now see that I somehow managed to misunderstand the last sentence of rule 7 as referencing only suggested transactions from Other players.


Because the spot transaction is between two players, both players need to agree to it.
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