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Subject: First round combat rules: attacker can "overwhelm" defender? rss

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A L D A R O N
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Am I interpreting the "first round combat rules" correctly? Do they mean that in the first round

(1) if the marker starts in favor of the attacker and the defender can't move the combat marker to 0 or in his favor, then the attacker suffers no losses; and

(2) if the marker starts at 0 or in favor of the defender and the attacker can't move the combat marker in his favor, then the defender suffers no losses?

In effect (1) the attacker can overwhelm the defender (and (2) the defender can repulse the attacker)?
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Darrell Hanning
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That's my interpretation of the rule, FWIW.
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Kurt Purcell
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Situation 2 you are likely to take back the move if playing a friendly game, because you should be able to determine that before making the move before the hidden information of what cards can be played in support.
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kurt_purcell wrote:
Situation 2 you are likely to take back the move if playing a friendly game...

What's this "friendly game" you speak of?
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Kurt Purcell
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Aldaron wrote:
kurt_purcell wrote:
Situation 2 you are likely to take back the move if playing a friendly game...

What's this "friendly game" you speak of?
What you would consider a learning game maybe, or as friendly as you can be when playing a 3x space conquest game. Alternately you need less cutthroat gaming partners.
 
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Renaud Verlaque
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Quote:
(2) if the marker starts at 0 or in favor of the defender and the attacker can't move the combat marker in his favor, then the defender suffers no losses?


Beside a calculation error on the part of the attacker, how could that happen (leaving aside the attack of a neutral planet with a face-down alien marker)?

Isn't all information known before players start playing cards for matter (or alternate resource made a combat resource by a reserve card)?
 
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Steven Cameron
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Well, it could be there to stop attackers seeing a fleet of ten ships, attacking it with one, and killing five of them through the combat losses resolution. The attacker always needs to send in enough strength to properly oppose a fleet before they can damage it.

This may be AFAoS / Mythotopia influencing me, but we played it that combat is declared, and the first round includes the first move in by the attacker, so it's always the attacker who needs to flip the combat track. Looking at the rules again I'm not sure if that's right though.
 
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Renaud Verlaque wrote:
Beside a calculation error on the part of the attacker, how could that happen (leaving aside the attack of a neutral planet with a face-down alien marker)?

Isn't all information known before players start playing cards for matter (or alternate resource made a combat resource by a reserve card)?

Yes.
 
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Alain R
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I don't want to open a new topic so I seize this one to ask a related question : can you sacrifice one unit to attack a planet protected by 4+ units ? By doing that, you lose your ship, but the defender would loose 2+ units (half rounded down). This may be a tatical move to prepare another attack the next turn... Is it a valid move ?
 
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Ralf Brechtel
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karamo wrote:
I don't want to open a new topic so I seize this one to ask a related question : can you sacrifice one unit to attack a planet protected by 4+ units ? By doing that, you lose your ship, but the defender would loose 2+ units (half rounded down). This may be a tatical move to prepare another attack the next turn... Is it a valid move ?



as far as i know, this is a regulary tactical move. I see no restriction why you have to have more fleets as your opponent to attack him. That´s a reason i like in the game. "All out war" can be really expensive. So it´s also a good way to place a system in the way to your neighbours with one fleet on it, to make an attack with a lot of fleets more difficult for them.
 
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Steven Cameron
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I think that's part of what the first round combat rules are designed to stop. Unless the one ship can bring enough other strength to flip the initiative track, the defender isn't liable for losses.
 
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Alain R
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Ubik Lives wrote:
I think that's part of what the first round combat rules are designed to stop. Unless the one ship can bring enough other strength to flip the initiative track, the defender isn't liable for losses.

My understanding is that the attacker *may* retreat, but is not obliged to retreat. In my "sacrifice" move, the attacker would decide not to retreat, to cause damages to the defender.
 
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Steven Cameron
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On page 18 there is this rule

"FIRST ROUND OF COMBAT SPECIAL RULES – At the start of the combat if the player who is required to move the marker on the Combat Track is unable to move it to a winning position then they automatically lose and suffer losses as described below. The other player will not suffer any losses. Thus, the Game marker must cross the boundary between the two parts of the Combat Track to lead to a situation where both sides will be liable for casualties."

If the attacker can't flip the initiative track against the four enemy ships (by paying matter, using special cards or the like), then the four ships won't take losses.
 
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Alain R
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Well pointed! Missed this one...
This means also that if you attack with huge superiority, and the defender player is unable to move back the marker enough, you may win without having any loss ?
 
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Paulo de Urmeneta
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karamo wrote:
Well pointed! Missed this one...
This means also that if you attack with huge superiority, and the defender player is unable to move back the marker enough, you may win without having any loss ?

Yes
 
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