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World War II: Pacific Theater of Operations» Forums » Rules

Subject: Looking for Rule clarification: 22.3 rss

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Randall Holbrook
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"Certain divisions, when eliminated, are replaced by brigades."
That is through numbered step losses, correct? Not an AE result on the CRT?
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Tony Doran
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I agree. A unit can be eliminated through step loss, and divisions can become brigades in such a case. But the DE and AE result really takes the unit off the board.
 
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Randall Holbrook
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Thanks. Playing Solo. Japan is having a hard time in China.
 
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Mike Smith
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I think you are probably technically wrong from the explicit use of the word eliminated, and would cite p38 where it explains 22.0 by saying that "these divisions may be replaced with brigades if removed from the map".

Came up in a game today. Gualdalcanal scenario. My Japanese marines DEed his US marines division, which was then replaced by a marine brigade, and Henderson Field held.

But it does seem odd that a D3 could remove more than a DE... so maybe you are right. Would love D. Niles to clarify this.
 
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Randall Holbrook
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The 2nd paragraph on page 29 regarding US corps units:
"...each corps is a five-step unit; if two steps are eliminated, it is replaced by a full-strength infantry division."
I think that refines the definition of the use of"eliminated" in 22.3.
 
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Colin Raitt
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We play that DE elminates divisions and corps completely. Otherwise a japanese division defending an island against an amphibious assault by 2 marine divisions a 6-10 bomber and 10 naval gunnery at 6:1 has a 5/6 chance of holding though reduced to a 3-3 brigade, the marines will be unsupplied at the end of the month and subject to attrition. That doesn't fit with what happened. Guam and Saipan had division sized or bigger garrisons and succumbed within a month. Iwo Jima, Peleliu and Okinawa took more than a month but the US were never unsupplied and always firmly ashore after 2 days at most. As an aside I can't see Saipan as a 2 hex island. Maybe a DE result allows the amphibious assaulter to gain control of the hex (rule 7.6 para 7), leaving the defenders out of supply and reduced to brigades?
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Mike Smith
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Hi Colin. Loved the game on Monday though it took quite a time, with rules in hand, to stagger through the first two months, at which point Paul resigned since he had no carrier fleet left (he, he!).
Another rules issue that we could not definitively resolve was just as important as this one. If opposing naval forces begin the Offensives phase in the same hex can the 1st player intercept and initiate surface combat without the other player being able to fly off carrier air to attack? The rules specify that you can't intercept a non-moving naval force, so if the player seeking surface combat does not fly up any air (which clearly can be intercepted) then it would seem you can. Certain other cryptic rules about defending carriers might indicate that you can, however. Any light on this Colin (I think you qualify as the Brains trust on ETO/PTO!).
 
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Colin Raitt
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Hi Mike

Nothing you can do once your carriers are gone.

As I read it the initiative player can naval intercept in his starting hex without the 2nd player bombing his ships. Rule 5.4 allows active ships to intercept non-moving inactive ships in the same hex. Rule 9.6 para 3 requires active ships to move to be interceptd by bombers. This is re-iterated in 11.5. 2 exceptions, if the initiative player comes out of port (5.2 para 2) or it is a sea area without a hexgrid (5.5 last para). The initiative player can even send in his bombers which can be intercepted by 2nd player fighters without triggering 2nd player bombers. There was a chance to bomb during the air-naval phase and another will come in the 2nd player's offensive. You could justify it as a night action.
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