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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Forced effect inside another one rss

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Alvaro
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How do you resolve a forced effect that triggers when you are resolving another forced effect but haven't yet finished?
Do you keep resolving the first one and then resolve the second one?
Do you start resolving the second one and then continue with the first one?
Do you start resolving the second but ignore the rest of the first one?

This problem came when playing the second stage of The Lonely Mountain with Smaug the Golden in play with 5 tokens on it. If you quest succesfully the forced effect on the quest triggers, you put the 6th token on Smaug and then its forced effect triggers. So would I get to do the burgle attempt? or would I just advance to stage 4?
 
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Brother Leon
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My instinct tells me that Quest card advancement always happens before a Forced effect.

But I am unfamiliar with this quest.
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Jurgen Koller
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That's a very good question and I'm not sure I've seen the answer to this in any of the forums. I would post this to Caleb Grace to get an official response.

I see two viable options:
(1) keep resolving the first forced effect and then resolve the second one; or
(2) start resolving the second one and then continue with the first one

I'm leaning towards option (2) if I consider your situation.

Here are the card texts involved:

Quote:
Quest Stage 2B
Forced: After questing successfully, place 1 progress on Smaug the Golden. Then, the first player makes a burgle attempt. If successful, the first player takes the top treasure card from under The Lonely Mountain into his hand. Then, the players may advance to stage 3.
Forced: After the first player makes an unsuccessful burgle attempt, Smaug the Golden attacks the first player.

Quote:
Quest Stage 3B
When Revealed: Set Smaug the Golden aside, out of play. Add Smaug the Magnificent and A Bare Patch to the staging area.

Quote:
Quest Stage 4A
When Revealed: Remove all progress from Smaug the Golden and set him aside, out of play. Then, add Smaug the Magnificent to the staging area.

Quote:
Smaug the Golden
Forced: After the 6th progress token is placed here, the players advance to stage 4A.


Option 1 sequence of events
(1) "Forced: After questing successfully, place 1 progress on Smaug the Golden. Then, the first player makes a burgle attempt."

Two outcomes are possible: you succeed or fail the burgle attempt.

If you succeed:
(2) "If successful, the first player takes the top treasure card from under The Lonely Mountain into his hand. Then, the players may advance to stage 3."
(3) If you choose to advance to stage 3: "When Revealed: Set Smaug the Golden aside, out of play. Add Smaug the Magnificent and A Bare Patch to the staging area."
NOTE: You can no longer go back to resolve the forced effect on Smaug the Golden because you just removed him.

If you fail:
We now have two outstanding forced effects: "Forced: After the first player makes an unsuccessful burgle attempt, Smaug the Golden attacks the first player." and "Forced: After the 6th progress token is placed here, the players advance to stage 4A." You would probably have to choose the 2nd one as its precondition had triggered first. This seems counter-intuitive to the purpose of forced effects: that is, resolve them immediately when the precondition happens.


Option 2 sequence of events
(1) "Forced: After questing successfully, place 1 progress on Smaug the Golden." [interrupt]
(2) "Forced: After the 6th progress token is placed here, the players advance to stage 4A."
(3) "When Revealed: Remove all progress from Smaug the Golden and set him aside, out of play. Then, add Smaug the Magnificent to the staging area."

This seems cleaner. You no longer complete the forced effects on quest stage 2b. This is probably why you had specified a third option of "Do you start resolving the second but ignore the rest of the first one?" I didn't include this as viable for the mere reason that a nested forced effect can resolve in such a way that you could return to the original forced effect.

Well, that's my take on it. An interesting situation you found yourself in.
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Chris M
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This has apparently been answered by Caleb:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/970356/lonely-mountain-2b-a...

I am having trouble finding an additional source, but it was previously ruled (if i remember correctly) that card effects are resolved sentence by sentence. Basically, after each period, if any new effects were triggered, you proceed to resolve them before continuing. In this case, since continuing causes the text that would cause you to make a Burgle attempt to leave play, you do not make a Burgle attempt.

Edit: I finally found the additional source I was looking for: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/235730-ffg-ru...

Also, funnily enough...in that thread, someone linked to your exact same question which also has an earlier "sentence by sentence" ruling which is available here: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/83067-lonely-...

Quote:
Hi,

When you resolve the Forced effect on stage 2B, you resolve it sentence by sentence. The first sentence instructs you to place 1 progress on Smaug. If that is the 6th progress on Smaug, then Smaug’s Forced effect kicks in and redirects you to stage 4A, removing stage 2B from play. Since stage 2B’s text is no longer active, you do not resolve the next sentence on it. Instead, you must resolve the ‘when revealed’ effects on stage 4A.

Therefore, when you place the 6th progress on Smaug at stage 2B, you do not make a burgle attempt, instead you advance to stage 4A. You must defeat stage 4B in order to return to stage 2B.

I hope you’re enjoying The Lonely Mountain!

Cheers,

Caleb
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Jurgen Koller
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cmabr002 wrote:
This has apparently been answered by Caleb:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/970356/lonely-mountain-2b-a...


Brilliant. Thanks.
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Alvaro
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Thanks everyone for the answers!
I tried searching for an answer before asking but was unable to find it.
 
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