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Subject: The whole Coin situation is cumbersome rss

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Tom Maertz
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We re-started the second scenario and a player that had 50 gold held over took all 5 piece coins (obviously to minimize Gremlin loses).

I told him he was suppose to keep the same size coins as before but he claimed he couldn't remember that so he was taking all 5's.

It seems like there is some leeway for making change when buying items but otherwise you are suppose to be stuck with the same size coins. Given that you can trade coins around when at the Emporium, that gives lots of tricks you could pull to make change the way you want.

Also there is the fact a gremlin that steals a random coin when the coins are different sizes. There is no built in way in the game to easily randomize which coin you lose.

I think Im going to house rule that at the start of each Quest/Emporium visit players can make change as they wish. The downside is that if players take all the small coins then they might lose out of treasure drops. The game we just played we lost out on at least 40 coins because we didnt have any 5's or 10's left to place on the map.

How have others been handling coins?
Wakrob

 
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The Fire
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When you acquire crowns you have to do it using as few coins as possible. If you are gathering 50 held over crowns, you have to take a single 50.
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Tom Maertz
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I like it. I was just thinking the same.
 
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Greg
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Wayne LaBanca wrote:
When you acquire crowns you have to do it using as few coins as possible. If you are gathering 50 held over crowns, you have to take a single 50.


Yes, this is actually in the rulebook.
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Karl
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When you aquire, yes.

But it isn't stated that you may not change in between quests. So the problem is still valid, even if not as serious.
 
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Skaak
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kilrah wrote:
When you aquire, yes.

But it isn't stated that you may not change in between quests. So the problem is still valid, even if not as serious.


Simone has ruled in the past that you must use the smallest number of physical coins possible when making change with the Emporium. I'm having trouble finding the exact post, but here's one related instance.

If your friend buys something and has 50 Crowns left, then they must leave the Emporium with a single coin. The only way to break it is to divide it up amongst other heroes (which is only possible if they are also at the Emporium, which usually only occurs at the beginning of the quest).
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Kevin Chapman
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We've actually been a little confused about this, based on the wording of the rules. Do you have to make up what you gain in the fewest coins possible, or what you have after you gain it? In other words, if I have 30 crowns (three 10s) and pick up 20 from a Loot token, do I now have five 10s or one 50?
 
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N F
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Krieghund wrote:
We've actually been a little confused about this, based on the wording of the rules. Do you have to make up what you gain in the fewest coins possible, or what you have after you gain it? In other words, if I have 30 crowns (three 10s) and pick up 20 from a Loot token, do I now have five 10s or one 50?


Fortunately, this example is pretty clear. The point of the rule in the dungeon is that there aren't any money changers in the dungeon. If you are walking down the street with 3 ten dollar bills in your wallet, you reach down and pick up a bag that has 2 ten dollar bills, when you put them in your wallet, they don't magically become a fifty.

Money in the dungeon is straight forward and makes sense. All the stuff about making change and breaking up money among the heroes at the emporium... that stuff is foggy.
 
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Skaak
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Relampagos wrote:
We've actually been a little confused about this, based on tMoney in the dungeon is straight forward and makes sense. All the stuff about making change and breaking up money among the heroes at the emporium... that stuff is foggy.


The rules are admittedly fuzzy. But the intent is clear (based on Simone's responses to similar questions around the forums):

* You can't make change anywhere other than the Emporium (so if a Gremlin drops 10 crowns, you can't split it into two 5 crown coins when you pick it up or trade it to another hero)

* Whenever you gain crowns (whether in the dungeon or due to getting change back in the Emporium), you must take the smallest number of physical coins possible.

Personally, I play that I can shuffle my party's funds around between quests (so if I have 100 Crowns I might give one hero 25, one hero 35, and one hero 40 at the start of the quest instead of taking 2x 50 Crown coins and distributing them between the heroes; but still using as few physical coins as possible on a per-hero basis). This makes tracking things between quests a lot simpler, because I can just note the party total and treat crowns like a shared resource when I'm outside the quest. I'm also playing almost exclusively solo, though.

A stricter reading would be that even when trading funds between quests, the heroes have to respect physical coins. Personally, I find that overly fiddly, though, and since quests sometimes grant "the party" a specific coin reward, it seems silly that I'd need to track individual coin counts between quests.
 
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Max Jansson
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Well, we just change up when we find coins in the dungeon. Still broke the bank in quest two (Shae).
 
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Torrie Ottinger
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The following are clear interpretations of the rules on Crowns via pg 40 in the, "Sword and Sorcery," handbook:

1. You may never use a card or non-monetary token as money, you must immediately exchange said card or token for a Crown token.

2. "When a hero acquires Crowns, he must place them on his hero sheet using as few coins as possible."(rulebook pg 40) If you read this literally, then you would use as few coins as possible on your card.

EX: If I have 35 coins on me and I acquire 20 more, I would take one
fifty and one five crown token and put all other crowns back, hence
putting as few coins onto my sheet as possible.

I am supported by this line from the rule book: "If one kind of token is
missing, heroes can exchange coins to recieve the proper amount." It is
telling you to exchange them in dungeons.

3. You can never have more money between all characters than there are crowns. If the box has 0 crowns, then the kingdom is dry.

4. While on quests, each player has their own crown pool, though each player can drop crowns for other players or a player can pick crowns up. All this can be donw using action points.

5. While at the Emporium, you don't have to spend actions to share money.

I'm a horrible stickler for rules. I think it's my years working as a legal assistant in a law firm *laughs*.I would love a link to read the creator's exact words. Until I see one, I will continue to play it by the handbook rules.
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Torrie Ottinger
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Evil_X wrote:
Well, we just change up when we find coins in the dungeon. Still broke the bank in quest two (Shae).

According to the rulebook, this is the correct way to do it.
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Kand Affar
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Tozzle wrote:
The following are clear interpretations of the rules on Crowns via pg 40 in the, "Sword and Sorcery," handbook:

1. You may never use a card or non-monetary token as money, you must immediately exchange said card or token for a Crown token.

2. "When a hero acquires Crowns, he must place them on his hero sheet using as few coins as possible."(rulebook pg 40) If you read this literally, then you would use as few coins as possible on your card.

EX: If I have 35 coins on me and I acquire 20 more, I would take one
fifty and one five crown token and put all other crowns back, hence
putting as few coins onto my sheet as possible.

I am supported by this line from the rule book: "If one kind of token is
missing, heroes can exchange coins to recieve the proper amount." It is
telling you to exchange them in dungeons.

3. You can never have more money between all characters than there are crowns. If the box has 0 crowns, then the kingdom is dry.

4. While on quests, each player has their own crown pool, though each player can drop crowns for other players or a player can pick crowns up. All this can be donw using action points.

5. While at the Emporium, you don't have to spend actions to share money.

I'm a horrible stickler for rules. I think it's my years working as a legal assistant in a law firm *laughs*.I would love a link to read the creator's exact words. Until I see one, I will continue to play it by the handbook rules.


2. Incorrect, you are using a limited exception to change the rule. The default rule is you do not and may not exchange coins. There is a limited exception if you run out if coins to make the exact amount.

If you find 40 coins, you do not and cannot turn in a 10 and take a 50 unless there aren't enough 10s and 5s to make 40.
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Torrie Ottinger
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Cozar wrote:
Tozzle wrote:
The following are clear interpretations of the rules on Crowns via pg 40 in the, "Sword and Sorcery," handbook:

1. You may never use a card or non-monetary token as money, you must immediately exchange said card or token for a Crown token.

2. "When a hero acquires Crowns, he must place them on his hero sheet using as few coins as possible."(rulebook pg 40) If you read this literally, then you would use as few coins as possible on your card.

EX: If I have 35 coins on me and I acquire 20 more, I would take one
fifty and one five crown token and put all other crowns back, hence
putting as few coins onto my sheet as possible.

I am supported by this line from the rule book: "If one kind of token is
missing, heroes can exchange coins to recieve the proper amount." It is
telling you to exchange them in dungeons.

3. You can never have more money between all characters than there are crowns. If the box has 0 crowns, then the kingdom is dry.

4. While on quests, each player has their own crown pool, though each player can drop crowns for other players or a player can pick crowns up. All this can be donw using action points.

5. While at the Emporium, you don't have to spend actions to share money.

I'm a horrible stickler for rules. I think it's my years working as a legal assistant in a law firm *laughs*.I would love a link to read the creator's exact words. Until I see one, I will continue to play it by the handbook rules.


2. Incorrect, you are using a limited exception to change the rule. The default rule is you do not and may not exchange coins. There is a limited exception if you run out if coins to make the exact amount.

If you find 40 coins, you do not and cannot turn in a 10 and take a 50 unless there aren't enough 10s and 5s to make 40.


Incorrect, it never actually states you cannot make change. I'm looking at the rulebook right now. Not once. You are the one using the limited exceptions rule to pretend there was a rule at all. The main problem is that an original rule is not really there. As a matter of fact, the closest we get is, "When a hero acquires crowns, he must place them on his character sheet using as few coins as possible." This never says to exclude the coins already on your charafter sheet. Since exchanges are possible, you are free to interpret when to be whenever you want. It is never stated in the rules. Again, if anyone can link to where the creator actually posted differently, then I will submit. Until then it is merely some guy or girl online who "thinks" they read about this from the creator some where. I am not a sheep.
 
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Jee Fu
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Tozzle wrote:
Cozar wrote:
Tozzle wrote:
The following are clear interpretations of the rules on Crowns via pg 40 in the, "Sword and Sorcery," handbook:

1. You may never use a card or non-monetary token as money, you must immediately exchange said card or token for a Crown token.

2. "When a hero acquires Crowns, he must place them on his hero sheet using as few coins as possible."(rulebook pg 40) If you read this literally, then you would use as few coins as possible on your card.

EX: If I have 35 coins on me and I acquire 20 more, I would take one
fifty and one five crown token and put all other crowns back, hence
putting as few coins onto my sheet as possible.

I am supported by this line from the rule book: "If one kind of token is
missing, heroes can exchange coins to recieve the proper amount." It is
telling you to exchange them in dungeons.

3. You can never have more money between all characters than there are crowns. If the box has 0 crowns, then the kingdom is dry.

4. While on quests, each player has their own crown pool, though each player can drop crowns for other players or a player can pick crowns up. All this can be donw using action points.

5. While at the Emporium, you don't have to spend actions to share money.

I'm a horrible stickler for rules. I think it's my years working as a legal assistant in a law firm *laughs*.I would love a link to read the creator's exact words. Until I see one, I will continue to play it by the handbook rules.


2. Incorrect, you are using a limited exception to change the rule. The default rule is you do not and may not exchange coins. There is a limited exception if you run out if coins to make the exact amount.

If you find 40 coins, you do not and cannot turn in a 10 and take a 50 unless there aren't enough 10s and 5s to make 40.


Incorrect, it never actually states you cannot make change. I'm looking at the rulebook right now. Not once. You are the one using the limited exceptions rule to pretend there was a rule at all. The main problem is that an original rule is not really there. As a matter of fact, the closest we get is, "When a hero acquires crowns, he must place them on his character sheet using as few coins as possible." This never says to exclude the coins already on your charafter sheet. Since exchanges are possible, you are free to interpret when to be whenever you want. It is never stated in the rules. Again, if anyone can link to where the creator actually posted differently, then I will submit. Until then it is merely some guy or girl online who "thinks" they read about this from the creator some where. I am not a sheep.

Well, unless the word "them" is referring only to the coins which you have just acquired and not to the total amount.

"When a hero acquires crowns, he must place them (the crowns acquired) on his character sheet using as few coins as possible."

This is arguably a more reasonable interpretation than the other way around. The word "them" in a dependent clause refers to the object of the independent clause which in this case is "the acquired crowns". There is no reason to think that this word refers to "all crowns that Hero now has."

- Jee
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Kand Affar
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Tozzle wrote:
[q="Cozar"][q="Tozzle"]
...
You are the one using the limited exceptions rule to pretend there was a rule at all. The main problem is that an original rule is not really there.


You can't have an exception to a rule that doesn't exist. If the heroes were allowed to make change normally the rule permitting them to do something they can already do would be superfluous. The rules are pretty comprehensive on what you can do with coins, drop, gift, loan and nowhere is exchange them with the bank for different values one of the options except when necessary to make precise change for newly received money.

You might as well argue that I can use a movement action on somebody else's hero turn because the rules don't say I can't.
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Kand Affar
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By the way, it doesn't make you a sheep to change your mind after being presented with a reasoned argument, but to satisfy your appeal to authority, mI went and found the thread:

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/26507453#26507453
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