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Subject: Clarification on Facedown Blue Tiles rss

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Dave Summers
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We played this twice last night and really enjoyed it. One thing did come up; the rules were so simple I thought we might begin with all of the optional rules in play (investigator abilities, Smoker, facedown blue tiles, I think we forgot the 'retrieve blue tile' one) and then work backwards to balance it as required. We ran into a problem with facedown tiles, what happens if you use the coach and therefore move two spaces? Obviously moving the Jack figure twice gives the game away, so we just played that you had to be out of sync with the figure and the paper. Even face up, it doesn't quite fit as usually you mark the move you came from to the one you arrive at (so if you use the boat on your fourth turn, you place it between 4 and 5) but the coach doesn't stretch that far. If not for the facedown option, it would have made more sense to make the coach tiles horizontal and give them three markers along the top.

One other point was where exactly the blue investigator can get a boat from: does it have to be a crossing connected to a blue circle, or any crossing that's next to water?

EDIT: Oh, and one other thought we had: are you allowed to use two consecutive blue tiles? It doesn't forbid it anywhere, but it just seems like an elegant way of avoiding having to overlap tiles. Looks ugly having to lean one tile half on another one
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DaveSumm wrote:
We played this twice last night and really enjoyed it. One thing did come up; the rules were so simple I thought we might begin with all of the optional rules in play (investigator abilities, Smoker, facedown blue tiles, I think we forgot the 'retrieve blue tile' one) and then work backwards to balance it as required. We ran into a problem with facedown tiles, what happens if you use the coach and therefore move two spaces? Obviously moving the Jack figure twice gives the game away, so we just played that you had to be out of sync with the figure and the paper. Even face up, it doesn't quite fit as usually you mark the move you came from to the one you arrive at (so if you use the boat on your fourth turn, you place it between 4 and 5) but the coach doesn't stretch that far. If not for the facedown option, it would have made more sense to make the coach tiles horizontal and give them three markers along the top.

Yeah, if you're using them face-down, I can't see any other option but to treat it as a single move on the board & just note down 2 movements on your notepad. So they will be out of sync, but doing anything else would defeat the purpose of hiding the type of special movement that was used.

I guess the Jack player would be more focussed on how many moves they have left on their secret piece of paper than the number track anyway, so it shouldn't result in any accidental errors in that sense.

And the diagram on pg 13 shows use of a coach (face-up) by placing it aligned with the next 2 slots after the current one, so you're placing it as the 2nd of the two moves you're making, exactly as you describe.


DaveSumm wrote:
One other point was where exactly the blue investigator can get a boat from: does it have to be a crossing connected to a blue circle, or any crossing that's next to water?

The blue investigator can use the boat movement to move between any two crossings that form the perimeter of the same "block of water". See "Boat" on pg 14 for a definition of a "block of water", and example on pg 4. But if I understand it correctly, the crossings do NOT have to be connected to a blue circle directly, but must be on that perimeter.


DaveSumm wrote:
EDIT: Oh, and one other thought we had: are you allowed to use two consecutive blue tiles? It doesn't forbid it anywhere, but it just seems like an elegant way of avoiding having to overlap tiles. Looks ugly having to lean one tile half on another one

I haven't seen anything to prevent it either. Sorry, no better suggestions on placement yet though!
 
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Ben Power
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I played with my wife last night a couple of times. When we were playing it I played Jack both times and when I used my movement tiles I placed them face-up near my movement tracker.

If I used a carriage, I moved my Jack Tracker 2 times. I kind of assumed that if the investigators didn't see this it would be way too hard to track Jack.

I took it as if you played a boat, the investigators would be like "Oh sh*t! He's on the water" and it would be a hint. Seems that if they didn't get these, Jack would be way over powered being totally secret. Maybe I'm playing/thinking wrong?

Would have to play a few more times to see.
 
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Gabriel N
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When using a Coach, Jack always writes down two moves and he also moves the Jack figure two spaces on the track, it does not matter if the special moves are being made face-up or face-down.
 
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Dave Summers
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gns000 wrote:
When using a Coach, Jack always writes down two moves and he also moves the Jack figure two spaces on the track, it does not matter if the special moves are being mafe facr-up or face-down.


Source? It'd render the facedown variant pretty pointless, if he moves twice it's a coach. That leaves two, and if he's not near water, that leaves one. I really like this game but let's face it, there's just a lot of inelegant gaps in the rules. Could've done with a little longer in the oven perhaps.
 
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Gabriel N
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Rules are clear enough, just follow them as written. It says nowhere in the rules that the Murderer at Large variant modifies in any way the special movements other than the tiles being placed face-down on the movement track. But in page 10 it does says that when using Murderer at Large optional rule, "when Jack uses any Special Movement tile, he follows the normal rules, but instead of placing the tiles on the move track faceup, he places them facedown and does not tell the investigators which type of Special Movement he has made. The tiles are not revealed to the investigators until after the end of the round."

Rules are clear, so, to answer the question, the key part of the paragraph is "he follows the normal rules". You cannot assume that the optional rule modifies gameplay in any other way if the rule book does not explicitly says so.
 
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I agree with Gabriel- there is no way to hide a coach. The purpose of the rule is to allow Jack to hide whether he is using an alley or boat, and it is a very useful ability!

Regarding the consecutive use of special tiles by Jack, it doesn't say so explicitly in the rules but IMO it is implied that one is NOT allowed to place special tiles so that they overlap.
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Gabriel N
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verandi wrote:

Regarding the consecutive use of special tiles by Jack, it doesn't say so explicitly in the rules but IMO it is implied that one is NOT allowed to place special tiles so that they overlap.


I would argue that Special Movement tiles can overlap, because in page 12 rules explicitely say that "Jack may use one of his blue Special Movement tiles instead of making a normal move" and that "Each Special Movement tile can be used only once per game", but those are almost the only restrictions, if you use a Coach, and in the next turn you decide to use an Alley instead of making a normal move, the tiles will end up overlapping a bit.

By the way, the only other restriction is that "Jack cannot use a Special Movement tile to move into the next discovery location". But other than that, the rules allow Jack to use any (but just one) special movement tile he has left instead of making any normal move.
 
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Dave Summers
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verandi wrote:

I agree with Gabriel- there is no way to hide a coach. The purpose of the rule is to allow Jack to hide whether he is using an alley or boat, and it is a very useful ability!

Regarding the consecutive use of special tiles by Jack, it doesn't say so explicitly in the rules but IMO it is implied that one is NOT allowed to place special tiles so that they overlap.


I just don't think they thought facedown tiles through. Hiding whether you're using an alley or boat is very rarely useful, if you're not next to water it's useless.
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I just got a reply on some rules queries, including this question from the OP, courtesy of Molly Glover @ FFG (thanks!)...

Quote:
Q) If playing with the optional rule where Jack plays special movement tiles facedown, when Jack plays a Coach tile, should the Jack figure still be moved 2 spaces along the turn tracker? Of course this would give away that Jack has used a Coach, defeating the purpose of the facedown variant. Or should Jack simply move the figure 1 space, and ignore the fact that the notepad and the board are out of sync (since 2 board space numbers are still written down), and that the round may end earlier than the investigators expect?

A) The Jack player should place a carriage token in the same place that it would place a lamp or boat token (under the current turn-track space of the Jack pawn). The investigators simply won’t know exactly how much time Jack has remaining in the round. If the Jack player doesn’t reach a new Discovery location after 15 moves, the Jack player is responsible for revealing that he or she has lost the game (since the investigator will not know that he/she has used all 15 moves).


So, the Jack figure would only move 1 space (not 2), in order to maintain the hidden identity of the facedown Coach tile. However, Jack will still write down 2 new locations on the tracker sheet & consume 2 turns in the process. The Jack figure & track sheet will thus be out of sync, but the Jack player will be the only one with that knowledge, and be responsible for ending the round correctly.

The optional rules should have perhaps gone into more detail & covered this situation, but I think it makes the most sense this way.
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