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Subject: Who knew Ford had it in him rss

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Andre
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http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/14/north-kore...

Interesting story, about the last two American deaths in the Korean conflict, and President Fords response to them. The article also suggests that a multinational, military show of force was, and still could be very useful, in making NK back down. Personally, I think we are beyond that point, they now look to nuclear weapons as a must for their country, and I don't think even shows of force, like Ford demonstrated, will work now. That said, it was a ballsy move, and it makes an American proud to know that the tree was cut down (although little solace for the loss of the two men).
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Vic Lineal
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If one is looking into the psychology of North Korean leaders regarding the US, I think knowing that 10-15% of the North Korean population were civilian casualties of United Nations bombing during the Korean War is a more prominent fact. More bombs were dropped on North Korea than on the entire Pacific theatre of WWII. The confrontation may have been a foreign localised war for the US, but for Koreans it was a total war.

The siege mentality of North Korea may be misguided, but it didn't just spring out of nowhere.
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G Rowls
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Mostly made up of spare parts and sarcasm! ... HTTP Error 418 I'm a Teapot!
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J.D. Hall
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viclineal wrote:
If one is looking into the psychology of North Korean leaders regarding the US, I think knowing that 10-15% of the North Korean population were civilian casualties of United Nations bombing during the Korean War is a more prominent fact. More bombs were dropped on North Korea than on the entire Pacific theatre of WWII. The confrontation may have been a foreign localised war for the US, but for Koreans it was a total war.

The siege mentality of North Korea may be misguided, but it didn't just spring out of nowhere.

Maybe they shouldn't have invaded South Korea in 1950. Probably fewer bombs -- or none.

Your post is interesting, but fails context. Vietnam and Laos had more bombs dropped on them during the Vietnam War than practically every other war before or since. Both are Communist countries. Yet both have good relations with the bombing party, aka the US. In fact, Vietnam and the US have grown exceedingly close, particularly economically. They, along with Germany and Japan, don't have siege mentalities.
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Junior McSpiffy
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So maybe the first step from where we are today is to try to broker a formalized peace treaty? I don't know if we attempted that and NK refused, but it seems like if we want to normalize relations and offer them a path to join the world community, that seems like a decent first step.

Of course, they may not accept...
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Vic Lineal
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remorseless1 wrote:
Maybe they shouldn't have invaded South Korea in 1950. Probably fewer bombs -- or none.


Yes, probably no bombs or none. Probably just bullets, bayonets, rapes and setting villages in flames. After all, the US-backed southern government had just used these means to execute a couple dozen hundreds of peasants (10% of the population) of Jeju island (driving another few tens of thousands to flee to Japan to escape the political violence) using these weapons, no need for bombs.

Quote:
Your post is interesting, but fails context.


Does the context extend only to explain that North Korean civilian deserved to be massacred because of the war? Nothing before, after, or in the South? The list of American fuckups leading to, during, and after the Korean War is impressive and costed hundreds of thousands of Korean lives apart from the war (and the following decades haven't been short on fuckups to compare with, up to and including Iraq and Afghanistan; so it's not like Korea isn't against competition).

Quote:
Vietnam and Laos had more bombs dropped on them during the Vietnam War than practically every other war before or since. Both are Communist countries. Yet both have good relations with the bombing party, aka the US. In fact, Vietnam and the US have grown exceedingly close, particularly economically. They, along with Germany and Japan, don't have siege mentalities.


Could it have something to do with the fact that Vietnam and Germany reunited? Vietnam is a particularly good example of the path that a Northern victory in the Korean war would have probably taken - Chinese-style economic reforms and integration in global markets. Not having a country split in two sides at the brink of war for decades tends to make political reform easier and militarism less of a priority.

Japan was never partitioned, still has a large occupation force and has until very recently been forbidden from deploying armed forces outside Japan and to some extent to have independent foreign policy; and (coincidentally or not) these restrictions are relaxing just at the same time that a seriously revisionist current is taking shape under Abe that is starting to claim that Japanese Imperialism was pretty OK. Granted, the US has nothing to worry from it.
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Vic Lineal
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GameCrossing wrote:
So maybe the first step from where we are today is to try to broker a formalized peace treaty? I don't know if we attempted that and NK refused, but it seems like if we want to normalize relations and offer them a path to join the world community, that seems like a decent first step.

Of course, they may not accept...


North Korea has been in the UN demanding a peace settlement for decades.

What they will probably not accept is unilateral surrender; if that's the peace treaty, it will most likely not work. For instance, recent calls have been responded with a demand of unilateral disarmament by NK first; NK will obviously not accept that as a precondition to negotiate a peace.
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