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Star Wars: Rebellion – Rise of the Empire» Forums » Rules

Subject: Escape plan - advanced tactic card rss

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jooice ZP
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the text on the top part of the card (requiring a shuttle) says:

"you may immediately retreat. if you do, cancel the imperial tactic card"

my questions pertaining to this card are:

1. Do I need a leader in the system to preform this (i would rule no).
2. If i retreat, do I have to take all my forces? can I leave ground units as normal? (i would rule that i can leave ground units)
3. If I have already retreated once (normally) can I play this card's action and retreat again(yes?)? what if is the other way around, can I retreat again after I have played this card(maybe?)?

 
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Luke Skywalker
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Quote:
1. Do I need a leader in the system to preform this (i would rule no).
2. If i retreat, do I have to take all my forces? can I leave ground units as normal? (i would rule that i can leave ground units)


This retreat follows all the same rules as regular retreat except for when it takes place.
This means you need a leader and all forces capable of of leaving the system on their own must leave. (So you could leave ground units as normal)

Quote:
3. If I have already retreated once (normally) can I play this card's action and retreat again(yes?)? what if is the other way around, can I retreat again after I have played this card(maybe?)?


I don't remember the rules on multiple retreats, but since their aren't anymore units that could retreat I don't think you would be allowed to retreat again.
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Don Draper
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You might want to email fantasy flight games for clarification
 
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jooice ZP
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lmSkywalker wrote:
Quote:
1. Do I need a leader in the system to preform this (i would rule no).
2. If i retreat, do I have to take all my forces? can I leave ground units as normal? (i would rule that i can leave ground units)


This retreat follows all the same rules as regular retreat except for when it takes place.
This means you need a leader and all forces capable of of leaving the system on their own must leave. (So you could leave ground units as normal)

Quote:
3. If I have already retreated once (normally) can I play this card's action and retreat again(yes?)? what if is the other way around, can I retreat again after I have played this card(maybe?)?


I don't remember the rules on multiple retreats, but since their aren't anymore units that could retreat I don't think you would be allowed to retreat again.


the base game rules say you can only retreat once from a battle (even if you have 2 leaders in the system), the real question is, whether this counts like a regular retreat.
 
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Witold G
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I'm reading "You may immediately retreat" part as "You may perform retreat procedure now, even though it's not Retreat step yet" and nothing else, i.e. you have to obey all retreat rules and limitations, this ability only changes the timing of when retreat is allowed.

That's just my reading, of course, but I believe the clarification regarding the base game version of Escape Plan suggests that this is the intention:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25951398#25951398

Besides, retreating with no leader would be an easy way to do multiple moves in a single game round.
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Dan P
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If you've already retreated once, you can't still have a transport in the system, so this card effect can't be used, anyway.

As for the rest, because the card uses the word "retreat" (as opposed to something like "remove units from this system" etc.) I'd say all normal retreat rules apply. You must have a leader in the system, must take all space units, must have transport capacity, and may choose to leave any ground units behind.

I believe the Escape Plan card in the base game explicitly let you ignore transport capacity, but all other retreat rules still applied.
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jooice ZP
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Bobb Feta wrote:
If you've already retreated once, you can't still have a transport in the system, so this card effect can't be used, anyway.

great point, you are correct
Quote:

As for the rest, because the card uses the word "retreat" (as opposed to something like "remove units from this system" etc.) I'd say all normal retreat rules apply. You must have a leader in the system, must take all space units, must have transport capacity, and may choose to leave any ground units behind.

I believe the Escape Plan card in the base game explicitly let you ignore transport capacity, but all other retreat rules still applied.


it makes sense, but it also would be the only tactic card that would require a leader to accomplish an action.
 
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Dan P
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jooice wrote:
Bobb Feta wrote:
If you've already retreated once, you can't still have a transport in the system, so this card effect can't be used, anyway.

great point, you are correct
Quote:

As for the rest, because the card uses the word "retreat" (as opposed to something like "remove units from this system" etc.) I'd say all normal retreat rules apply. You must have a leader in the system, must take all space units, must have transport capacity, and may choose to leave any ground units behind.

I believe the Escape Plan card in the base game explicitly let you ignore transport capacity, but all other retreat rules still applied.


it makes sense, but it also would be the only tactic card that would require a leader to accomplish an action.
Rogue One relies on normal retreat rules and therefore requires a leader in the system to accomplish anything, too*.

But I think the strongest indicator of the card's intent is Perf's last point. If you could do this without a leader, then these units could all move again this round. That's way more powerful than simply saving your ground units from destruction, as the name of the card implies.

*(edit) side note: isn't it odd, thematically at least, that Confrontation doesn't require a leader? Who's confronting Vader, some random trooper? We've seen how well that goes...
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Witold G
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I think one way to not let the dictionary meaning of words influence our reading of their in-game meaning (after all, rules for "retreat" are different in every game) is to mentally replace them with generic terms and then proceed reading them that way.

In this case:

Escape Plan says "You may immediately perform Procedure #275". So we check rulebook to see what this procedure is and it says "To perform Procedure #275, the player must take one of his leaders..." (Ok, so a leader is required...) "...and place it in an adjacent system. Then he takes his units from that system and moves them to that leader’s system following normal movement and transport rules." (Ok, so we need to obey movement and transport rules...) Etc.
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Perf wrote:
"You may immediately perform Procedure #275".

Execute order 66!

According to what we checked during our last game, when you decide to retreat, you can voluntarily leave units which require transporting, but all others have to move away from the active system, excluding immobile ones. Of course, you cannot retreat:
- without your any leader (presence of tactics values does not matter)
- if you have Death Star in a battle as Empire
- it there are no valid destination systems

The rule above implies that you can retreat only once per battle, but it is mentioned in rules in a separate point anyway.
 
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jooice ZP
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cyb3k wrote:
Perf wrote:
"You may immediately perform Procedure #275".

Execute order 66!

According to what we checked during our last game, when you decide to retreat, you can voluntarily leave units which require transporting, but all others have to move away from the active system, excluding immobile ones. Of course, you cannot retreat:
- without your any leader (presence of tactics values does not matter)
- if you have Death Star in a battle as Empire
- it there are no valid destination systems

The rule above implies that you can retreat only once per battle, but it is mentioned in rules in a separate point anyway.


Acctually you are allowed to retreat witha leader that doesnt have tactics, you can even send that leader in at the start of combat to help you retreat
 
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Don Draper
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Are you sure this is correct?
 
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Scott Lewis
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ou1975 wrote:
Are you sure this is correct?

The rules specifically say you can retreat with a leader that has no Tactics values, and when adding a leader they do not say they must have tactics values.
 
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Mattias Elfström
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Perf wrote:
I think one way to not let the dictionary meaning of words influence our reading of their in-game meaning (after all, rules for "retreat" are different in every game) is to mentally replace them with generic terms and then proceed reading them that way.

In this case:

Escape Plan says "You may immediately perform Procedure #275". So we check rulebook to see what this procedure is and it says "To perform Procedure #275, the player must take one of his leaders..." (Ok, so a leader is required...) "...and place it in an adjacent system. Then he takes his units from that system and moves them to that leader’s system following normal movement and transport rules." (Ok, so we need to obey movement and transport rules...) Etc.

Great explanation!

Good rulebooks should have all in-game defined words marked in some way (bolded, italicised, etc).
 
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jooice ZP
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ou1975 wrote:
You might want to email fantasy flight games for clarification


Is there a specific email for rebellion questions?
 
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Scott Lewis
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jooice wrote:
ou1975 wrote:
You might want to email fantasy flight games for clarification


Is there a specific email for rebellion questions?

There's a rules question submission form on their website. On the form, you specify which game you are asking questions about.

You go to Customer Service at the footer of the page, then open the Rules Questions sections and click on the link to the Rules Question Form. It takes you to this page:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/contact/rules/
 
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jooice ZP
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You guys were correct, here is Corey's answer:

Quote:
To answer your questions:
1) Yes, you need a leader in the system.
2) You follow all normal retreat rules. You can leave ground units as normal.
3) If you retreat only ships, your opponent’s card is still canceled.

Thanks for playing!
- Corey Konieczka
VP of Research & Design
Fantasy Flight Games
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Niall Smyth
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What do you folk think about 'immediately'? I'm wondering which steps of combat you complete before that retreat, and whether player order matters. As written, it seems like you could retreat before any part of the opponent's tactics card resolves, unless you were the attacker, and the defender played a 'cancel' card. Does that make sense?
 
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Genestealer Patriarch
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poshniallo wrote:
What do you folk think about 'immediately'? I'm wondering which steps of combat you complete before that retreat, and whether player order matters. As written, it seems like you could retreat before any part of the opponent's tactics card resolves, unless you were the attacker, and the defender played a 'cancel' card. Does that make sense?

"Immediately" means "at the time you got to play the effect on the card".

So if the Imperials were defending, and played a card which cancels yours, then you don't get to retreat*. Otherwise, you get to retreat before anyone rolls any dice, does any damage, or causes any more effects.

*Only if the Imperials have a TIE Striker in the system and its tactics card available.
 
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