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Subject: Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Contest Ready rss

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Harshad Deshmukh
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Game Name: - Barbers!
Design: Harshad Deshmukh
Artist: Marianne Waage
In Barbers!, you and a partner face the Sunday rush as new barbers - giving customers all the cuts and shaves they need while preventing the pesky old barber of the neighbourhood from stealing customers from right under your nose!
1-2 players
Play time: ~15-20 minutes

Components:


•Salon Chair Cards x 3
•Customer Cards x 25
•Player Actions Card x 2
•Player Score Track Card x 2
•Old Barber Actions Card x 1
•Old Barber Score Track Card x 1
•Temporary Help Card x 1
•Customer Preservation Actions Reference Card x 1
•Customer Preservation Action Cards x 6
•Play Sequence Card x 1
•22 cubes as follows:
o 6 Red (player 1 cubes)
o 6 Blue (player 2 cubes)
o 6 Yellow (Old barber cubes)
o 1 Purple (TurboTrim 9000 cube)
o 3 Black – Temporary Help cubes
•d6 dice x 3 (14 mm)
•First player token x 1
•Setup Card x 1

-----------

Barbers! is a game about barbers on a Sunday! Sick of your daily routine, you and your partner decide to set up a barber shop. You arm yourselves with all the tools of the trade - comfy chairs, the best clippers, shavers, creams and oils - and a small TV to keep the patrons entertained!

But on your first Sunday you are faced with your first major challenge - the wave of customers lining up to get a haircut or a shave or both. And some of them have been holding back on their visit for months - so there's that to deal with!

And then there's the old barber from the neighbourhood, who is not ready to let newcomers in so easily! He will use all the tricks up his sleeve and his familiarity of the neighbourhood to lure customers away from your shop!


------

PnP Files:


Rules v1.1 :
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1HeHtqG14hOeeRGSq3Kfc9ZLl1r...

Game Components:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KEXMUsUNd9SQq2K6JC1Ovm-kbo...

Everything at once:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bbzfF7zIaOE9Mzz1346JZrCdCh...
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Harshad Deshmukh
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - [Idea Phase]
Images:

Prototype 3 & 4






Prototype 2





Prototype 1:



*Face icon on customer cards in Prototype 1 downloaded from http://www.freepik.com
Some icons downloaded in Prototype 1 from Vecteezy (https://www.vecteezy.com)


I think I will make the Customer cards bigger, and also the Chair cards. Maybe Biz size for the Chair cards and mini/micro for customers? Will try out these options.
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Harshad Deshmukh
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - [Idea Phase]
Hi all! Would be great to have some feedback on this so far, based on the above gameplay post.

What sounds interesting?
What does not?
What more details would make it more interesting?

I am still playtesting it - I am looking for some help with private playtesting. Please give me a shout out if you would be interetsed so I can send you the PnP files

Thank you!
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Brian Garthwaite
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - [Idea Phase]
uberjoker wrote:
Please give me a shout out if you would be interetsed so I can send you the PnP files
Broadly speaking, you might do well to offer up what you have to the community. Google Drive, Dropbox, OneDrive, what have you. We're all in the process of game development, so rough edges are understandable. Drop by some other threads to check things out, leave some helpful comments, and people will wander over here, too.

Also worth mentioning that the Solitaire PnP Contest is voting this week. Expect a good bit of overlap with this contest, and hence a good deal of folks occupied with last-minute playtesting over there.
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
bgarthwaite wrote:
uberjoker wrote:
Please give me a shout out if you would be interetsed so I can send you the PnP files
Broadly speaking, you might do well to offer up what you have to the community. Google Drive, Dropbox, OneDrive, what have you. We're all in the process of game development, so rough edges are understandable. Drop by some other threads to check things out, leave some helpful comments, and people will wander over here, too.

Also worth mentioning that the Solitaire PnP Contest is voting this week. Expect a good bit of overlap with this contest, and hence a good deal of folks occupied with last-minute playtesting over there.

Thanks! I think I will go ahead and post PnP files.
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Brian Garthwaite
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
Hi, Harshad!

I had a chance to print things out and give things a solo play-through.



Thought I'd leave a few comments and questions, in no particular order:

- I'm a sucker for a unique theme, so Barbers! caught my eye. As you develop the aesthetic of the game, I'm excited to see what sort of details you can incorporate from Delhi barber shops.

- I like that your choice of dice needs to balance between your actions and the old barber's. Gives you a little to think about. It's good to have times when you need to make a sub-optimal choice to prevent a worse outcome later.

- The rules reference a first player token and a rules card that aren't included, as well as the action reference and old barber reference cards that are the same. (Probably ought to include two player reference cards, too.)

- Since size matters in this contest, you may wish to note the size of the cubes and dice that you use.

- Regarding cubes: With a 5-cube limit, it seems that the barber can't steal a high-value customer (except with tea/coffee/cricket in the queue). Is that right? Also, should a player misjudge their actions and have all 5 cubes on customers, while unable to complete the haircut, are they stuck and actionless? Or is there a means of redress? I also assume that you may choose to place fewer than 2 cubes if you wish, but it's not explicitly stated.

- Also cubes: If the old barber places a chat cube on a customer in the queue, and they then enter your shop, does the cube remain?

- Related: Can the barber steal customers from within your shop, or just from outside? Does it matter if you've started trimming?

- Is the game over when the last customers enter the queue, or when they get their hair cut? I assumed the former.

- You mentioned earlier about increasing card size. There's an understanding that components will be tiny, but I'd suggest making them as large as suits the tin for ease of play. Note that you're not limited to "standard" card sizes, if that improves your design.

- Point values noted on the cards would be really helpful. Counting icons is a pain.

- The rules explain that you have men, women, and children all lined up for haircuts, but the images are all identical dudes with beards. There's a beard-light example in the rules, though. It'd be more visually interesting if the customers were unique, especially if the person we see matches the haircut needs: beards need shaving, no haircut could be bald, women and children don't have sideburns, etc.

- If you can create a solo variant to play the game, you could widen the available playtester pool.
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
Hi Brian, Thank you for making the time to test this out! You have raised very good points, and I will try to answer the ones I can, and for some I might need to change some things

I'm a sucker for a unique theme, so Barbers! caught my eye. As you develop the aesthetic of the game, I'm excited to see what sort of details you can incorporate from Delhi barber shops.

I'm glad the theme caught your attention. I am working with an artist friend to do some art for the game, so yes I think there will definitely be more local-Indian flavour to it!

I like that your choice of dice needs to balance between your actions and the old barber's. Gives you a little to think about. It's good to have times when you need to make a sub-optimal choice to prevent a worse outcome later.


yes that is the intention, in principle. I am not sure it is manifesting itself very well yet though. What did you feel in your playthrough?


The rules reference a first player token and a rules card that aren't included, as well as the action reference and old barber reference cards that are the same. (Probably ought to include two player reference cards, too.)


Thanks for pointing it out! First Player token - will make this part of next update!
Action Ref and Barber Ref - I combined these into one card - do you mean there should be two of these or it's better to have these as two separate cards?

Since size matters in this contest, you may wish to note the size of the cubes and dice that you use.


Good point---will do this.

Regarding cubes: With a 5-cube limit, it seems that the barber can't steal a high-value customer (except with tea/coffee/cricket in the queue). Is that right?


In the current rules, this is correct. But I feel this may not work out, so am thinking of changing this. What I am thinking is this - once a cube is placed on a customer for not being serviced a turn, if the next turn too the same thing happens then another cube is placed and at the beginning of the next turn the customer 'walks off' out of the shop.

Also, should a player misjudge their actions and have all 5 cubes on customers, while unable to complete the haircut, are they stuck and actionless? Or is there a means of redress? I also assume that you may choose to place fewer than 2 cubes if you wish, but it's not explicitly stated.


I have made a change for this - the idea is that the player can 'complete' a part of the services and in a turn move the cubes from the a customer to another part of the same customer. For example - if a customer needs 3 on shaving, 3 on haircut and 2 on sideburns - then the player car first plan to 'complete' the shave, then next turn if he has the choice to take a haircut action, he can move a max of 2 cubes from shave to haircut area on the same customer.
And yes, you can choose to place less than 2 cubes!

If the old barber places a chat cube on a customer in the queue, and they then enter your shop, does the cube remain?


I'm sorry I have not updated the rules! if a customer has a chat cube placed on him by the old barber, he cannot enter your shop that turn.

Next turn - if the old barber again is able to take the chat action, he can steal the customer already having a chat cube. Else, If he cannot take a chat action, the chat cube comes off and the customer is free to enter your shop the next turn.

Can the barber steal customers from within your shop, or just from outside? Does it matter if you've started trimming?


Only from outside - once customers are inside, old barber cannot chat them up - though if you ignore the customer two consecutive turn he will walk off to the old barber's shop Once you start trimming, the customer is yours till he's got all his services.

Is the game over when the last customers enter the queue, or when they get their hair cut? I assumed the former.


Yup you assumed correct

You mentioned earlier about increasing card size. There's an understanding that components will be tiny, but I'd suggest making them as large as suits the tin for ease of play. Note that you're not limited to "standard" card sizes, if that improves your design.


Yes I agree - I have planned to make them bigger. The next pnp update will have bigger cards (hopefully) with art!

Point values noted on the cards would be really helpful. Counting icons is a pain.


Agree here too...will do that next update.

The rules explain that you have men, women, and children all lined up for haircuts, but the images are all identical dudes with beards. There's a beard-light example in the rules, though. It'd be more visually interesting if the customers were unique, especially if the person we see matches the haircut needs: beards need shaving, no haircut could be bald, women and children don't have sideburns, etc.

Yes that is the plan - my art and photoshop\inkscape skills are very weak, so I just put together this version with placeholders. There will definitely be portraits for men/women/kids matching the service demands they have

If you can create a solo variant to play the game, you could widen the available playtester pool.

It could be done by having two chairs instead of three, one player against the old barber. Will make this part of the official rules after testing it out!
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
uberjoker wrote:
yes that is the intention, in principle. I am not sure it is manifesting itself very well yet though. What did you feel in your playthrough?
I like the concept, but it's not challenging enough. I succeeded without worry.

As for reference cards - assuming tin space enough - it feels like players should each have their own. I'd include the old barber on both, too, since your choice of action depends on his options.

uberjoker wrote:
In the current rules, this is correct. But I feel this may not work out, so am thinking of changing this. What I am thinking is this - once a cube is placed on a customer for not being serviced a turn, if the next turn too the same thing happens then another cube is placed and at the beginning of the next turn the customer 'walks off' out of the shop.
Sounds like a reasonable addition to increase the difficulty.

uberjoker wrote:
my art and photoshop\inkscape skills are very weak, so I just put together this version with placeholders.
Don't apologize for your Photoshop skills. Get the game design solid, and look around for friends or BGG folks willing to help with art. They're out there.

I'm looking forward to see where you can take this. Good luck!
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Marianne Waage
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
Quickly read through the instructions:

The game description is fun. It's missing some punctuation. Some of the sentences are long, but punctuation would fix most of it.

Component listing for cubes is awkward. Perhaps: "5 each of 3 different colors of cubes", or "5 different colored cubes per player, plus 5 for the 'old barber'"

Consider a setup photo. (It's not obvious from the setup description what 'the queue' would be, and a picture probably would make that clear.)

If 'sideburns' and 'head' are a different dice action, consider changing the scissors on the side to a different icon from the scissors for clarity. You might also change 'sideburns' to 'sides', so you could have beard edges in addition to shave head sides or mohawks, for more variety of art.

The instructions seem pretty clear, which is nice (and often hard to do). I often see the simplified 'game goal' at the top, after the game description, in addition to at the end, probably so people know what they're aiming for as they read through the instructions. This is referred to in your game description, but not as explicitly as I usually see (first to so many points, highest points before customers are done, etc).

You might consider a score tracker, since players share points on cards finished together. That seems like it could get confusing.

I could probably help with the art, if desired. The existing portraits are cute, and probably simple to replicate.
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
yamaraus wrote:
Quickly read through the instructions:

The game description is fun. It's missing some punctuation. Some of the sentences are long, but punctuation would fix most of it.

Component listing for cubes is awkward. Perhaps: "5 each of 3 different colors of cubes", or "5 different colored cubes per player, plus 5 for the 'old barber'"

Consider a setup photo. (It's not obvious from the setup description what 'the queue' would be, and a picture probably would make that clear.)

If 'sideburns' and 'head' are a different dice action, consider changing the scissors on the side to a different icon from the scissors for clarity. You might also change 'sideburns' to 'sides', so you could have beard edges in addition to shave head sides or mohawks, for more variety of art.

The instructions seem pretty clear, which is nice (and often hard to do). I often see the simplified 'game goal' at the top, after the game description, in addition to at the end, probably so people know what they're aiming for as they read through the instructions. This is referred to in your game description, but not as explicitly as I usually see (first to so many points, highest points before customers are done, etc).

You might consider a score tracker, since players share points on cards finished together. That seems like it could get confusing.

I could probably help with the art, if desired. The existing portraits are cute, and probably simple to replicate.


Great feedback! Thank you!

Quote:
If 'sideburns' and 'head' are a different dice action, consider changing the scissors on the side to a different icon from the scissors for clarity. You might also change 'sideburns' to 'sides', so you could have beard edges in addition to shave head sides or mohawks, for more variety of art.

This seems like an obvious thing to do now haha! Thanks!

Quote:
I could probably help with the art, if desired. The existing portraits are cute, and probably simple to replicate.

Thank you for the offer! I can definitely use the help - the images i am currently using are free vectors from freepik or vecteezy.


It would also be great to hear your thoughts on the gameplay...if you liked it,was it compelling\exciting\not really etc.
 
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
Actually playing will take longer for me. I'll see what I can do. Maybe if I print it this afternoon I can sneak in some time tonight.

As for the art, do you like the style of the people you're already using? If so, I'll use that as a basis. (That style should be easy for me.) Are the cards pretty good as far as which have haircuts, sides and beards? And did you decide on the larger card size? (I have a stash of mint tins, so I can size things to fit.)

And if you have time, my game from last year could use some multi-person testing, if you have a group. (I think the trick difficulties all need to be about 2 points higher.)

[WIP] Pavemint: A Refreshingly Different Grind - rather epic components now available! Come playtest!
 
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
yamaraus wrote:
Actually playing will take longer for me. I'll see what I can do. Maybe if I print it this afternoon I can sneak in some time tonight.


Hey, no pressure! I do understand it can be difficult to make time

Quote:

As for the art, do you like the style of the people you're already using? If so, I'll use that as a basis. (That style should be easy for me.) Are the cards pretty good as far as which have haircuts, sides and beards? And did you decide on the larger card size? (I have a stash of mint tins, so I can size things to fit.)

Yup, I like the current style since it seems to suit the 'tone' of the game.

As for the cards and size, can I give you definite answers to these questions over the weekend ?
Also, are you saying a unique face for each card? that's very generous of you!

Quote:

And if you have time, my game from last year could use some multi-person testing, if you have a group. (I think the trick difficulties all need to be about 2 points higher.)

[WIP] Pavemint: A Refreshingly Different Grind - rather epic components now available! Come playtest!

Since it is a 3p min game...I will need the help of a playgroup - I will get the components ready and take it there, and then hopefully I can give you some feedback
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
Okay, I only got through 2 rounds as 2 player. Please pardon the ever changing formatting, as I kept being interrupted pretty much every cube I placed. Player 1 picked up a fast customer in the first round, Player 2 managed to share a customer with Player 1 the second round, and the Barber stole a tea customer in the second round.

Due to ambiguity: I played with "First Player" token holder choosing which new customer gets to sit, and being able to choose from anyone face-up in the queue (since sometimes it feels arbitrary who gets their haircut next when you're waiting). I have not had a chance to fully read through the rules changes that you suggested above, so hopefully this still helps.

Notes:

- Rules say to place an Old Barber card but there's no card for that.
- Setup 3: Consider saying specifically, "This will be the Customer Deck", since you refer to it that way later.
- Put periods at the end of all your sentences in the list items. It's inconsistent right now.
- Setup 8: What's the queue? Where does it go? (I mentioned this earlier, but I'm just making a list.)
- Setup 9: Probably doesn't need a number, since you're done.

Gameplay - dice faces 5/6: Aren't these the same? Is the placement order required? (shave then head/side vs head/side then shave)

Gameplay - B. Perhaps finish the sentence, "...takes the associated action as described above."

Cube Placement Rules - consider numbering these, since you refer to 'the adjacent rule in point 2'

Cube Placement Rules - If you only have a cube on a 'common space' between two cards, which card does that count as being on? Does that then limit me to place on only those two cards? Probably good to be explicit in this case, and perhaps not call it 'common' since that makes it sound like it ignores the placenet rules for how many per card. Could one player have both 'common' spaces filled? Because that would sort of span 3 cards then.

Cube Placement Rules - Chat - Might be good to have a 'chat' icon on the barber card.

Cube Placement Rules - what do you do if you run out of cubes? Can you move cubes?

Gameplay - C - barber actions - use the same terminology on the cards as you do to describe the action on the reference card.

Gameplay - at what point do you put a new customer down when another has been completed? Is that at Step E, or is it when the Customer has been claimed? (In the latter case, it would be confusing for leaving cubes on cards.) Who gets to place the customer? Can you pick anyone in the queue to sit?

Gameplay - What if you decide to pick a dice face that doesn't let you place cubes there (perhaps because they're all full, like the limited sideburns)? I could imagine choosing something just to prevent the barber from a particular action, for instance.

Can you place cubes in places where it won't help directly? Like shave someone who has already been shaved? This could force someone to share their points with you, for instance. This is likely to happen on the 'common' sideburns squares, when a customer comes with no sideburns. Do they still get to share that customer with no sideburns? (Just being nitpicky.)

Barber - What happens if the Barber is out of cubes? Can he still steal people for offering Cricket? (I doubt this would happen, as I think the Barber has more cubes than needed for the rules.)

Barber - What if the Barber has an action that can't be taken? Like offering tea but no one wants tea?
Rules don't include solo play. Often this is added at the end, saying what things you don't do (like passing first player, or using both sets of cubes).

Game end is when customers deck is empty, but while you still have people in the queue. Might be good to be explicit.


Reference Card: Might be nice to have space next to the actions where you can place the dice that have been used, for visualization. Maybe with the pip dice face of the one you'd match.

Player Ref Card - Why does Shave have only one, where the others all have two? Is it Shave, Shave? Also, for the limited number of Sideburn spots, there's a lot of sideburn actions.
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
Reading through the other playtesting comments and rule thoughts:

Quote:
I have made a change for this - the idea is that the player can 'complete' a part of the services and in a turn move the cubes from the a customer to another part of the same customer. For example - if a customer needs 3 on shaving, 3 on haircut and 2 on sideburns - then the player car first plan to 'complete' the shave, then next turn if he has the choice to take a haircut action, he can move a max of 2 cubes from shave to haircut area on the same customer.
And yes, you can choose to place less than 2 cubes!

I think it might get confusing if you can move cubes, but still have that considered 'done'. I'd forget which parts I'd finished...
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
Really good questions! I will try to answer each of them:

Quote:
Due to ambiguity: I played with "First Player" token holder choosing which new customer gets to sit, and being able to choose from anyone face-up in the queue (since sometimes it feels arbitrary who gets their haircut next when you're waiting). I have not had a chance to fully read through the rules changes that you suggested above, so hopefully this still helps.

The queue works like this -



The customer in the '1' position is always the first to go on a chair. A new customer is added to the queue from the end i.e. '3' position. When a customer moves from '1' to a chair, the queue moves forward like any queue would - 3 moves to 2, 2 moves to 1. The only time this won't be true is when the old barber has a 'Chat' cube on a customer in the queue. In that case the customer would stay in the same position if the queue moves forward. For example, there is a chat cube on customer '2' in the queue, and customer in '1' moves to a chair - now '3' would move to '1' and a new customer would come into '3'.
This is basically to show that the old barber is holding back a big customer in the queue.
Hope this helps.

Notes:

- Rules say to place an Old Barber card but there's no card for that. - Yes you're right - will take care of this.

- Setup 3: Consider saying specifically, "This will be the Customer Deck", since you refer to it that way later. - Sounds good.

- Put periods at the end of all your sentences in the list items. It's inconsistent right now. - Sounds good.

- Setup 8: What's the queue? Where does it go? (I mentioned this earlier, but I'm just making a list.) - The queue can be placed as shown in the image above.

- Setup 9: Probably doesn't need a number, since you're done. - This is just for kicks! But if it's confusing I will take it off.

Gameplay - dice faces 5/6: Aren't these the same? Is the placement order required? (shave then head/side vs head/side then shave) - yes the placement order is required. So if you take Head\Sideburns, Shave - then you HAVE to place your first cube either on a head OR sideburns space, followed by a Shave space

Gameplay - B. Perhaps finish the sentence, "...takes the associated action as described above." - Sounds good

Cube Placement Rules - consider numbering these, since you refer to 'the adjacent rule in point 2' - Sounds good

Cube Placement Rules - If you only have a cube on a 'common space' between two cards, which card does that count as being on? Does that then limit me to place on only those two cards? Probably good to be explicit in this case, and perhaps not call it 'common' since that makes it sound like it ignores the placenet rules for how many per card. Could one player have both 'common' spaces filled? Because that would sort of span 3 cards then.

-- the cube would belong to the customer it was played for - I think I will change the cube space to reflect this better.
Yes, with the adjacency rules, you can place cubes on two cards that are adjacent to each other. So if you have a cube in a common space - you are limited to placing cubes on those two cards. This would be the same even if it was a no-sideburns customer - you are able to place cubes on two cards only if they are next to each other.
if you have cubes in such a way that it spans all three cards - you cannot place cubes on the head\shave space of a third card since you are limited to placing cubes on a max of two cards - as noted Cube Placement rules point 2


Cube Placement Rules - Chat - Might be good to have a 'chat' icon on the barber card. - This is a good idea - I think i will have icons for the dice too as you have suggested further down.



Gameplay - C - barber actions - use the same terminology on the cards as you do to describe the action on the reference card. - Sounds good

Gameplay - at what point do you put a new customer down when another has been completed? Is that at Step E, or is it when the Customer has been claimed? (In the latter case, it would be confusing for leaving cubes on cards.) Who gets to place the customer? Can you pick anyone in the queue to sit? - You put a new customer on the chair at the beginning of a new turn before the active player rolls dice. The customer in position '1' of the queue simply moves to the empty chair. This happens after all the cubes have been taken off the chair card (cubes that were left behind last turn after a completed customer moves out.) I will fix this in the rules - calling it a cleanup phase maybe

Gameplay - What if you decide to pick a dice face that doesn't let you place cubes there (perhaps because they're all full, like the limited sideburns)? I could imagine choosing something just to prevent the barber from a particular action, for instance. - yes I am working on this. Playtested this with a few options today. If it works I will upload the updated files and you can try it out too

Can you place cubes in places where it won't help directly? Like shave someone who has already been shaved? This could force someone to share their points with you, for instance. This is likely to happen on the 'common' sideburns squares, when a customer comes with no sideburns. Do they still get to share that customer with no sideburns? (Just being nitpicky.) -- No you cannot place a cube on a sideburn space of a customer that needs no sideburns But I see your point about forcing someone to share a customer - I am not sure I want it to happen this way or it may just lead to too many false placements of cubes and unhappy players


Barber - What happens if the Barber is out of cubes? Can he still steal people for offering Cricket? (I doubt this would happen, as I think the Barber has more cubes than needed for the rules.) - Nope the number of cubes he has is limited so if he has spent all his cubes he gets nothing!

Barber - What if the Barber has an action that can't be taken? Like offering tea but no one wants tea? - Then nothing happens! That's a part of strategy - if the players can work together to prevent the barber from getting good actions they can beat him

Rules don't include solo play. Often this is added at the end, saying what things you don't do (like passing first player, or using both sets of cubes). - yes will add these later, I still need to try out a solo version

Game end is when customers deck is empty, but while you still have people in the queue. Might be good to be explicit. - Sounds good

Reference Card: Might be nice to have space next to the actions where you can place the dice that have been used, for visualization. Maybe with the pip dice face of the one you'd match. - Yup I like this idea. Will implement it for sure.

Player Ref Card - Why does Shave have only one, where the others all have two? Is it Shave, Shave? Also, for the limited number of Sideburn spots, there's a lot of sideburn actions. - Good point. yes it is Shave, Shave. Will fix it.
 
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Harshad Deshmukh
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
yamaraus wrote:
Reading through the other playtesting comments and rule thoughts:

Quote:
I have made a change for this - the idea is that the player can 'complete' a part of the services and in a turn move the cubes from the a customer to another part of the same customer. For example - if a customer needs 3 on shaving, 3 on haircut and 2 on sideburns - then the player car first plan to 'complete' the shave, then next turn if he has the choice to take a haircut action, he can move a max of 2 cubes from shave to haircut area on the same customer.
And yes, you can choose to place less than 2 cubes!

I think it might get confusing if you can move cubes, but still have that considered 'done'. I'd forget which parts I'd finished...

Yes I am struggling with this too, maybe players could use some kind of markers to place on the card to show that the action has been completed. Am trying out this option.
 
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
Moving the cubes and putting down another marker will be slow and finicky given how small everything is. Perhaps you could instead do something else...

Maybe you could use the Old Barber to finish up the customer. Essentially gamble with his cubes, that the customer will finish before the Barber gets the customer. (Just spitballing.) Maybe that has an added consequence, like half points, or that the Barber gets to influence your queue because he showed off his skills in your shop.

Also, when removing cubes for a finished customer, what happens to the cube that sits between two chairs?
 
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
UPDATED!

Links to the updated Rules and Cards in the first post.


yamaraus wrote:
Moving the cubes and putting down another marker will be slow and finicky given how small everything is. Perhaps you could instead do something else...

Maybe you could use the Old Barber to finish up the customer. Essentially gamble with his cubes, that the customer will finish before the Barber gets the customer. (Just spitballing.) Maybe that has an added consequence, like half points, or that the Barber gets to influence your queue because he showed off his skills in your shop.

Also, when removing cubes for a finished customer, what happens to the cube that sits between two chairs?

I think I have solved this to an extent in this version

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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
I'm playing around with the card shape and format. Here's a sample with all but 4 or 5 of the heads done. This assumes a barber chair of 2.125" wide, and in portrait shape instead of wide. This allows for larger icons and larger customers.



It's a little cramped, but I want to see what it's like printed. I'm trying to keep the icons about 8mm in size, because they were so hard to see before.

Bed time. Think the side shaver icon needs to be adjusted still. And some hair styles may interfere too much with scissors. Will decide later. People still need shirts and such.
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
Here's a quick file with the larger clients and barber cards, hastily filled, using the layout on the new version. The rest of the tokens and reference cards can just be used from the other files. Thought this might help if people had trouble reading the smaller client cards.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz89XJI3MYCMWHBPem1MOHVxVms...
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
Harshad,

Read through the rules and have the following comments:

•On the second page under Setup, 2a. "Draw the three top cards from the Customers Deck and place them face up one the chair cards" has a wording error where underlined. Should this be, 'place one face up on each of the chair cards'?

•On the third page under Sequence of Play, 3. "First Player Action - The player having first player token can now choose to do any of the actions..." Should stipulate the player can choose to do one action from the dice rolled.

•On the fifth page under Cube Placement Rules, vb. "Placing the cubes in the space by moving them would COMPLETE the entire services of the customer" Makes it seem as though you do not need to use any dice actions and can simply move the cubes where needed as your action on the next turn. The illustration and description on the next page however contradicts this statement. I believe you are stating both requirements in va and vb need to be met to perform the action. I would suggest adding an 'and'.

•On eighth page under Old Barber Actions, 5. "If he does this, check how many of the customers in your shop have the Cricket ball icon. If there's a majority or a tie, you too are playing cricket on the TV..." Do customers in the queue count toward the cricket ball icon count? If not, then there cannot be a tie.

•Lastly, I am assuming when the Old Barber takes a customer that it goes directly into his display (i.e. point tally stack). Is this correct?

Overall, I like how the rules are laid out. The illustrations corresponding with the number sentences make setup easy. I like the concept and will play test soon.

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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
Thanks Robert, this helps a lot! All of the points you have raised are valid, I am fixing them now.

Quote:
On eighth page under Old Barber Actions, 5. "If he does this, check how many of the customers in your shop have the Cricket ball icon. If there's a majority or a tie, you too are playing cricket on the TV..." Do customers in the queue count toward the cricket ball icon count? If not, then there cannot be a tie.

The count is number of customer on chairs - so you're right there cannot be a tie. Will clarify this. In an earlier version I had set this to be a count of customers on the chairs vs in the queue. This bit is a relic from that time

Quote:
Lastly, I am assuming when the Old Barber takes a customer that it goes directly into his display (i.e. point tally stack). Is this correct?

Yup correct!

Masinko wrote:
Harshad,

Read through the rules and have the following comments:

•On the second page under Setup, 2a. "Draw the three top cards from the Customers Deck and place them face up one the chair cards" has a wording error where underlined. Should this be, 'place one face up on each of the chair cards'?

•On the third page under Sequence of Play, 3. "First Player Action - The player having first player token can now choose to do any of the actions..." Should stipulate the player can choose to do one action from the dice rolled.

•On the fifth page under Cube Placement Rules, vb. "Placing the cubes in the space by moving them would COMPLETE the entire services of the customer" Makes it seem as though you do not need to use any dice actions and can simply move the cubes where needed as your action on the next turn. The illustration and description on the next page however contradicts this statement. I believe you are stating both requirements in va and vb need to be met to perform the action. I would suggest adding an 'and'.

•On eighth page under Old Barber Actions, 5. "If he does this, check how many of the customers in your shop have the Cricket ball icon. If there's a majority or a tie, you too are playing cricket on the TV..." Do customers in the queue count toward the cricket ball icon count? If not, then there cannot be a tie.

•Lastly, I am assuming when the Old Barber takes a customer that it goes directly into his display (i.e. point tally stack). Is this correct?

Overall, I like how the rules are laid out. The illustrations corresponding with the number sentences make setup easy. I like the concept and will play test soon.

 
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
I'm trying to layout the Player Action cards, playing around with having them be icons instead of text. It looks like item 4 was changed to 'head/shave'. Should it instead be 'head, shave'?

On that matter, for player reference cards, do people/playtesters prefer icons that match those on the cards (which would help make it language independent) or is it easier to read 'head' and 'shave'?

Suppose it would be easy enough to provide both, but might be confusing when people cut out components and having extra.
 
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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
yamaraus wrote:
On that matter, for player reference cards, do people/playtesters prefer icons that match those on the cards (which would help make it language independent) or is it easier to read 'head' and 'shave'?

I like the icon instead of text suggestion.

I played two games as both players. I take back the tie comment for the Old Barber cricket action as a tie can occur when a customer has been removed from the chair.

I like the 1/2 the points reward from a blocking of the Old Barber but not sure how to record the points other than using pen and paper. Additionally, do you round down or up for the half points awarded?

I assumed if the extra Turbo cube was in use that there was no more extra cubes until it was returned.

It was fairly clear in the rules but confirming you can't put cubes on two different customers during the same action.

Overall, it took a bit of thought as I was playing but I didn't have too much difficulty beating the Old Barber while trying to out do the other player (though I was also the other player). The Old Barber was 7 points away from the highest scoring player the first game and 13 away the second game with both players being above the Old Barber both games.

You might consider the chat up customer ability remaining until the customer is removed from the queue or taken by the Old Barber. It would make the game slightly more challenging with little change.

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Re: [WIP] Barbers! - 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest - Components Ready
yamaraus wrote:
I'm trying to layout the Player Action cards, playing around with having them be icons instead of text. It looks like item 4 was changed to 'head/shave'. Should it instead be 'head, shave'?

On that matter, for player reference cards, do people/playtesters prefer icons that match those on the cards (which would help make it language independent) or is it easier to read 'head' and 'shave'?

Suppose it would be easy enough to provide both, but might be confusing when people cut out components and having extra.

I agree - icons would be so much better! I am thinking of chnaging how I write the actions to like below:

1. Head
2. Shave
3. Sides (changing this from sideburns as you suggested)
4. Head\Shave
5. Head\Sides, Shave
6. Shave\Head,Sides

The placement will be as per cube placement rules. So for '1' the player can place two cubes in the 'Head' space of same customer or one cube on one customer and second cube on head space of adjacent customer (i.e as per the Cube Placement rules).
Same for 2 and 3.

For 4, it can be either on Head space OR Shave spaces - again as per cube placement rules.

For 5, it is : Both cubes on Head OR both cubes on Sides OR First cube on Head second on Shave OR First on Sides and second on Shave

For 6, same as for 5.




 
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