Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
12 Posts

Folklore: The Affliction» Forums » General

Subject: Does this have meaningful choices? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Ryan Sherwood
msg tools
So this game looks great but I'm worried that it's quests and choices will fall flat.

I understand it's combat is basic but I really want there to be meaningful choices in its stories, that alter the ending or at least change the locations you visit. So that when I play the campaign again, it's a different experience. It's a hard thing to do in board games I'm sure and I can see why there limitations in having roughlike engines in board game experiences. However if you choose A instead of B do you just end in C anyway? Is the only difference that you get a different item or a slight variable.

I'm hoping that there are secret areas to explore and puzzles are more than just roll to see if you pass? I want real immersion, I haven't seen anything that displays other wise thus far.

Gloomhaven, despite Its praise, doesn't appeal to me and I'm hoping this is the grand epic adventure it seems to be. I'm not keen on GH design, the legacy aspect, the fact that you level up only to loose a character permanently. However I love the combat approach.

I'm stoked Folklore seems to have great variety it has side quests, recipes , crafting , seasonal events, night and day events. Does GH have any of this?

I just worry it will be a simple dice rolling , tactical skirmish game at heart , which isn't what I want from a game that hopefully looks to be basically a video game rpg on a table.


I have backed darklight memento mori which is more of a dungeon crawler and I know what I'm getting with that, with this I'm not so sure.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Branham
United States
Duluth
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
New Dia die Los Muertos. Lighter, sillier, and Stickers.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Not sure yet on Folklore. There is a game called Middara which looks as if it leans more heavily on its campaign story than most.

Gloomhaven does totally allow have a few significant choices. The character retirement isn't really a problem. You are probably playing that character between 6 and 30 scenarios before retiring. The thing about GH is that the campaign is SO freaking long. We are used to 8-12 adventures in a boardgame campaign. GH is more in the 40-60 range. You kind of want to move on to a new character. (I'm on my second, closing on my 3rd.)



1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
King Maple
Estonia
Tallinn
Harjumaa
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I just hope that Stephen Gibson didn't 'do his thing' too much. I absolutely disliked Grimslingers structure for its campaign.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cutthroat Cardboard (Barry)
Scotland
Edinburgh
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't think that many of us are in a position to answer the OP's question yet as we either don't have the game, or for the lucky few they haven't had time to digest it?. Whilst the question closely reflects my original thinking on Folklore I have gradually moved to a position where I think complex decision trees are highly unlikely, but that this is not necasarily unreasonable.....

I suspect that we'll see some variation in stories issued as part of the kickstarter depending on the author but I'm not expecting them to be heavily multi-layered. This dawned on me when I looked at the adventure creation kit and realised how much work would be involved in providing stories with genuine alternative narrative paths. I'm thinking therefore that purchased content will largely run on rails but that more detailed adventures may eventually be created by fans if the system is seen as having potential and there is sufficient demand to justify the work involved.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Torrens
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If you download and look at the sample adventure in the back of the Adventure Creation Kit, you will get a small sense of what an adventure would be like. I get the impression that the "chapters" provided in the game will be longer and have more decisions to make. The short quest in the ACK has choices to make and are the type that if you choose option B, option A is no longer available. You also obtain colour coded "story markers" which have an impact later in the story.

Will this equate to "meaningful choices"? Hard to say really but I suppose it really depends on what you are looking for. From what little I have read from people that have played the game so far, they seem to be enjoying it greatly.

One of the things that drew me to Folklore, aside from the theme, is the ability to play something, close to an rpg, without the need for a GM. No boardgame will accomplish this perfectly. Folklore however, looks like it makes a good attempt and will prove to offer quite a bit. In the Kickstarter, there are all sorts of extra bits like the crafting and recipes, the global events, etc. Where meaningful adventure choices may begin to appear in greater numbers will be in fan created adventures. Once we have played through the content provided, those of us that are thoroughly enjoying the game will most likely take a crack at writing our own stories

Mow a game that will involve meaningful choices will be Middara. It has been a long time coming but it is becoming very, very close to beginning production. It's main campaign story is almost 500 pages! It even allows (so I have heard since anyone has yet to play it) for permanent character death in the story and npc's to join and leave the party at different points.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J Lo
United States
Nevada
flag msg tools
mbmb
My understanding is this game is probably the best and closest incarnation of a an RPG in a board game format. You may want to check out the recent podcast review on Miniature Market. The reviewers seemed to have loved the game, which makes me regret not late backing this when I had the opportunity. Oh well, I'm still picking it up.

I have faith that within a few months to a year after the game is released, many players will have released additional content through the adventure creation kits and I'm sure that will definitely increase the life of the game beyond GBG's campaign.

I also agree with the OP that Gloomhaven is unappealing to me, despite it's high praise. Folklore's theme and campaign appeal much more. Hopefully, I get to play this in time for Halloween!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Hill
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think this is an often explored concept in design but something that doesn't really translate on the table. Meaningful choices probably mean something akin to making a decision and having that ripple effect everyone wants in open world games, but that's done through variables that interlock and play off each other that players don't have to keep track of in video games.

On the table, 1 situation may have 3 possible choices of outcomes. Well if every choice were to be meaningful from a story perspective, by the time you made 5 choices, the possible outcomes are

1 situation X 3 choices = 3 possible new situations
3 situations X 3 choices each = 9 new situations
9 X 3 = 27
27 X 3 = 81
81 X 3 = 243 new situations

So we're talking about 357 authored game states through to only the 5th story choice (save the prisoner, charm the vampire etc.).

This kind of scope usually strikes me as too wanting for the medium, where as playing an RPG with a game master is more fitting to fulfill this type of desire. I do LOVE seeing the innovations in games like these though (GH included) as such innovation is supposed to knock down the above and shatter it to pieces, which I hope happens.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charlie Theel
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I haven't seen huge chunks of the story sectioned off behind a fork in the choice road, but you do see encounters/skirmishes/puzzles that are only seen when you make specific choices. Those choices tend to branch off to the side of the ongoing quest and then collapse back in on the main story. It never feels like you're straying off into some distant sidequest. In that way the game and narrative feel coherent and your choices don't feel earth shattering.

It's best to think of this game as a board game adaptation of RPG modules. They allow for lee-way and decision points, but you're still trying to hit the goals of the module so you can't veer off and experience absolute freedom.

Interestingly enough, you kind of could run this game as a true RPG with a free form structure, a GM responding to choices players make and creating content based on that (or riffing on their choices and coming up with content/encounters on the fly). I don't think many would do that but it seems robust enough to support it.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lawrence Wheeler
United States
Duncan
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
As has been alluded to in some of the other responses in this thread; I don't think you're going to find true earth shattering decisions that expand on quest lines that go way down the rabbit hole. As Mike Hill said, that is just an insane amount of work to put out to enable that level of freedom coupled with the fact that you would be putting the player into the position of having to shepherd the correct narratives/components etc for that one decision tree whereas a video game does that work for you.

I haven't played the game yet, but, it seems to me that Folklore is attempting to hit a solid middle ground where there are decisions that are meaningful and affect game play without allowing for long decision tree run offs. Even video games, even the best video games (I'm thinking Witcher 3 here) have limitations on how far off the rails you can go with various decisions. The only way, in my opinion, to get a open ended experience such that the OP is describing is by playing an RPG. Myself, I'm "new" to the game board hobby as my group of friends and I played dnd 3.5 (3.5 is the best!) on an extremely regular basis for about 12 years. Now many of us are married and have a couple of kids and have moved away. Board games like Folklore let us scratch that dnd itch without requiring a ton of time (think prep time for a dm) to play. That lack of playing time is what has sent our group into the board gaming hobby.

But, if time is not a problem for you and you've got a group and a willing / capable DM. In my opinion, there is no better game than dnd (3.5!).
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
zee Parks
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lawman5014 wrote:
As has been alluded to in some of the other responses in this thread; I don't think you're going to find true earth shattering decisions that expand on quest lines that go way down the rabbit hole. As Mike Hill said, that is just an insane amount of work to put out to enable that level of freedom coupled with the fact that you would be putting the player into the position of having to shepherd the correct narratives/components etc for that one decision tree whereas a video game does that work for you.

I haven't played the game yet, but, it seems to me that Folklore is attempting to hit a solid middle ground where there are decisions that are meaningful and affect game play without allowing for long decision tree run offs. Even video games, even the best video games (I'm thinking Witcher 3 here) have limitations on how far off the rails you can go with various decisions.


This hits the mark pretty much concerning the decision tree options.

Quote:
The only way, in my opinion, to get a open ended experience such that the OP is describing is by playing an RPG. Myself, I'm "new" to the game board hobby as my group of friends and I played dnd 3.5 (3.5 is the best!) on an extremely regular basis for about 12 years. Now many of us are married and have a couple of kids and have moved away. Board games like Folklore let us scratch that dnd itch without requiring a ton of time (think prep time for a dm) to play. That lack of playing time is what has sent our group into the board gaming hobby.


Again, Folklore was created pretty much with his crowd in mind.
The Adventure Creation kit(Which some have stated is presented like a DM Guide) will allow more off the rails, GM like play-ability for those who wish to have a more open ended style experience.

Quote:
But, if time is not a problem for you and you've got a group and a willing / capable DM. In my opinion, there is no better game than dnd (3.5!).


Having played both extensively, I'd argue Paizo's Pathfinder expands and surpasses dnd 3.5, but else wise yes, you can't beat old pen and paper for the most flexibility in RPG game play.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cutthroat Cardboard (Barry)
Scotland
Edinburgh
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
HillKing wrote:

On the table, 1 situation may have 3 possible choices of outcomes. Well if every choice were to be meaningful from a story perspective, by the time you made 5 choices, the possible outcomes are

1 situation X 3 choices = 3 possible new situations
3 situations X 3 choices each = 9 new situations
9 X 3 = 27
27 X 3 = 81
81 X 3 = 243 new situations

So we're talking about 357 authored game states through to only the 5th story choice (save the prisoner, charm the vampire etc.).


This was the kind of scary math that convinced me that the printed stories were unlikely to veer from relatively conservative linear structures. That said I think creative types will find a way to work round this to produce both choice and the illusion of choice whilst limiting the number of scenes needing to be written to an acceptable number.

I don't think that most of us require diverging choices at every stage. I'd be happy with choices based on the information in the narrative being reflected in appropriate mechanical effects. At some point in the story it would also be good for there to be a genuine choice that might impact in the story arc potentially leading to a different outcome or the events of the final act to be viewed from a different stand point. I suspect that devices like clever use existing mechanisms within the game such as the coloured story counters and unique road events could be used to great effect to support diversity in the narrative without putting too much burden on additional scene writing.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Sherwood
msg tools
Thanks all for the comments and maths, like I said I understand have multiple choices in a boardgame that basically offer different paths is just too much of a conceptual and logistical nightmare.

That said I certainly think they is enough variety in this game to give it legs and I will be backing the 2nd reprint come October.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.