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Apex Theropod Deck-Building Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Battle Royale is confusing rss

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Rusty Perry
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I played my first multiplayer game last night. When we got to the last environment card, it started the battle royale. Since I played solo before, I never had to do this.

The rules didn't make sense to me. When we were playing we eventually only had the Alpha card in the ambush point and all 3 of us tied each time because we had nothing in our ambush point to play with it. We all only had afflictions in our hands. The rules didn't say if we could discard them. Since they are our health, we assumed they could not be discarded. So we were in an endless loop.

We saw no way to draw cards except for if you discard one or put one in the ambush point.

Is there ever a scenario where we don't play a card from the ambush point at all?

We ended up giving up on the battle royale and just counted the victory points on the Alpha and prey cards and decided we should find out how the battle royale works for next time.
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Max Jansson
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Battle Royale is crap, play with the variant that can be found in the variants forum. Much better.
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Subatomic Birdicle
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I have a variant I am working on, but haven't had a chance to test it yet, so I don't want to post it.
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David A
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You're right: it's confusing. As was already (correctly) stated, it's actually crap. It's the one wart on an otherwise beautiful game,

I recommend putting in one Boss (and their respective minions) for each player. Once the last Boss is defeated, that's the end of the game. Count up VPs to determine the winner!
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kimchi fried rice
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chuft wrote:
I have a variant I am working on, but haven't had a chance to test it yet, so I don't want to post it.

You could always crowd source your testing here whistle
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Subatomic Birdicle
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I didn't think anyone would want to risk one of their multiplayer games on testing a variant, but if someone wants to, I will see if I can formalize my idea.
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kimchi fried rice
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I play all my multiplayer games solitaire.

I would gladly try your variant
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Martin DeOlden
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I use the V1 rules for ending a multi player game over battle royale
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Subatomic Birdicle
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tawnos76 wrote:
I use the V1 rules for ending a multi player game over battle royale


We tried that, but it didn't work. One player kept drawing all the bosses and getting mauled beyond any chance of winning.
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David A
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That just sounds like bad luck. I'd try it again. Also remember: when the Boss shows up, you have the option of Fight or Flee at the beginning. If a player is in no position to do anything of any real substance to a Boss, it's best to just Flee. Sure, it counts as losing your turn, but you're not beat up and you can try again later.
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Subatomic Birdicle
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Thud105 wrote:
That just sounds like bad luck. I'd try it again. Also remember: when the Boss shows up, you have the option of Fight or Flee at the beginning. If a player is in no position to do anything of any real substance to a Boss, it's best to just Flee. Sure, it counts as losing your turn, but you're not beat up and you can try again later.


This option does not exist in the first edition, so we did not use it.

Even if you do use it, it means one player might effectively lose two turns while the other loses none. That is crippling.

I concluded it doesn't work and I won't use it again.
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Subatomic Birdicle
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xBino wrote:
I play all my multiplayer games solitaire.

I would gladly try your variant


Okay, I typed up my ideas, here they are

Multiplayer variant for 2nd edition instead of Battle Royale

Feel free to give them a try and post your comments in there. I will tweak the original post as needed if it works but needs some tweaks. Thanks.
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Leigh Ryan
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chuft wrote:
Thud105 wrote:
Also remember: when the Boss shows up, you have the option of Fight or Flee at the beginning.


This option does not exist in the first edition, so we did not use it.

To be clear, this option does exist in the first edition.

At the top of page 28:


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Subatomic Birdicle
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Interesting. You appear to have a different rulebook. Mine says:



The one in yours is not the "flight" option of the second edition, where you simply keep your entire hand and skip your turn. Instead, it makes you play Afflictions against yourself and discard everything else. Not quite the same thing.

And it's nothing like my copy's rulebook, which has no flight option whatsoever.

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Leigh Ryan
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I think it's fair to say the rules of this game are a f%*#king mess.
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David A
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chuft wrote:
Thud105 wrote:
That just sounds like bad luck. I'd try it again. Also remember: when the Boss shows up, you have the option of Fight or Flee at the beginning. If a player is in no position to do anything of any real substance to a Boss, it's best to just Flee. Sure, it counts as losing your turn, but you're not beat up and you can try again later.


This option does not exist in the first edition, so we did not use it.

Even if you do use it, it means one player might effectively lose two turns while the other loses none. That is crippling.

I concluded it doesn't work and I won't use it again.

To be clear, I wasn't referring exclusively to first edition, but ok. I'm a bit disappointed that you concluded it doesn't work without even trying it. We use it here all the time and it works smashingly.

YMMV, but please don't write something off just because of a misunderstanding.

**edit: spelling
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Subatomic Birdicle
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We did try it. The game was ruined when one of us lost two turns and the other lost none. I won't put us in that position again.

Whether the turn was lost by "fleeing" or by losing the first round against the boss and getting "battle ends" is not that significant. What matters is one player lost two turns of hunting and evolving and the other did not, because the first player encountered both bosses early on.

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David A
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Ok. That hasn't been a problem for us, but like I said before: YMMV
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Joe Scarborough
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I preferred the 1.0 endgame to 2.0, but I'll definitely try out the variant suggested. The game has generally played well for us, but the Battle Royale turns everything into a confusing mess, IMO.

One player pulling the bosses, while the other pulls none is bad luck. However, one game with horrible luck can be enough to identify flaws that you might rather just not play with. To each their own.
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Subatomic Birdicle
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It's not horrible luck. There are three cases in a two player game:

- Each player has the exact same number of boss encounters (very unlikely, especially since each boss typically appears multiple times per game)

- Player 1 encounters more bosses

- Player 2 encounters more bosses

In two of the three cases, it is extremely likely one player will lose two turns (in an already short game) while the other loses none.

If you hit equal encounters per player I would say you are being unusually lucky.
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We tried some of the suggested variants but it still felt a little off. I keep going back to the version 1 rules of placing a # of bosses in the hunt deck equal to the number of players. To get around the issue of one person encountering multiple bosses while other players encounter zero I was considering the following optional rule.
The first time a boss is encountered, the player who encountered it plays with the normal fight or flight option. If they choose to fight and win the boss is placed in their Den. Either way the game continues but you keep track of which player encountered the boss. When the next boss enters the Game Trail, if it is a player that has not yet encountered the boss you would still do the fight or flight. If it is the player who previously encountered the boss simply place the new boss to the side, finish populating the Game Trail and complete your turn as normal. Continue play around the board as normal until you get to a player that has not yet encountered a boss. Then instead of populating the Game Trail, this player would encounter the set aside boss. Any bosses that enter the Game Trail during the Emergence Phase of the Enviroment Deck are simply Re-Cycled and do not count as a Player Encounter.

This would prevent the issue with one person encountering multiple bosses while others never encounter the boss. It is still possible for some players to encounter a boss and some others nnot see one if you did not happen to cycle through the entire Hunt Deck. Also if by chance everyone encounters one of the boss cards and now a player has a second boss encounter simply recycle it to the bottom of the Hunt Deck. At the end of the game all players who did not defeat one of the boss cards randomly selects one of the remaining Cards to fight. All players add up their VP to determine the winner.

This keeps a randomness to their appearance as it does in solo play and if you fight and lose or choose flight instead, at the end of the game you may face off with the same boss again or encounter a different one.

I would be interested in anyone's thoughts on this. We have been experimenting with various rules and suggested varients and came up with this option but have not tried it yet.
 
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Subatomic Birdicle
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Did you see my variant

Alternate multiplayer rules for Apex Theropod 2nd edition
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Yes, I liked it. It is a great improvement over the battle royal. The only problem is I still know about when the Boss will appear. The version 1 rules and solo their appearance was much more random. I was hoping for something that would give the best of both worlds.
 
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Max Jansson
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alextuesday wrote:
Yes, I liked it. It is a great improvement over the battle royal. The only problem is I still know about when the Boss will appear. The version 1 rules and solo their appearance was much more random. I was hoping for something that would give the best of both worlds.


Have one boss in the hunt deck and have all players fight "their" boss when it appears. That should make it a little bit less obvious when it appears.
 
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