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Subject: Need help deciding on what to buy next. rss

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João Caldinhas
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Hello guys,

I want to get a Lovecraft themed game and I am thorn between getting either Eldritch Horror or Arkham Horror: The Card Game.

I will be playing exclusively two-player games and I don't like to control multiple characters. Since Arkham Horror excels at two players and has a smaller play time and smaller footprint it wins in those aspects for me.

On the other side, I think that you get more "game" for each EH product when in fact they don't vary in price that much from base and deluxe expansions prices when compared to AH. EH also seems to have much more replayability on either the base game or per new expansion.

I would really like the opinions of people that have played both games, and preferably like both, to help me make up my mind, what are the pros and cons you think for each game and what kind of player each one will attract more.

Best regards
 
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Joe Browes
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I think you would probably be happy with either. I love them both.

Eldritch Horror is a bit lighter on the rules side, and a bit heavier on the luck side. It's more of a romp, a fun adventure. The feeling tends to be more like 'I can't believe that just happened, how are we going to deal with that?' I know some people don't like not knowing what skill is going to be tested before they draw an encounter card, but that never bothered me.

Arkham Horror LCG is more on the cerebral side, for me. You look at your cards, look at the situation, work out your best plan, and excecute it. There's less luck since you the odds of success with the chaos bag are mostly static.

Eldritch Horror does sprawl across the table a bit, but AHLCG can take up a fair amount of room too, if there are a lot of locations in play. It has the edge over EH, but not by THAT much.

Eldritch probably wins out on cost-effectiveness too. All the expansions are great, and you can buy them at your own pace, but the base game feels like a full game.

One core set of AHLCG is only just playable, and you can't really do any deckbuilding. Two cores is the minimum for the full experience. And you are going to have to buy deluxe expansions and Mythos packs sooner rather than later. It's not a cheap game to keep up with, not at all.

One of the big questions is, do you like constructing decks? That's a bit part of AHLCG, if it's something you aren't interested in devoting some attention to, I would stay away.

Oh, I wish I could say 'this one' but they're both great!

Hope that helps a bit anyway.
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MC Shudde M'ell
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EH is a bigger game, takes more time per complete session, has more pieces and more things to keep track of, takes longer to set up. EH has a huge variety of possibilities and the unfolding story is both fairly coherent and has a lot of potential to surprise. The actions you take as Investigators tend to make sense as representing easily understood real world actions - for example, in EH you can use Influence (wealth, beauty, capacity to barter, beg, or steal) to get Assets when you're in a City - this seems pretty straightforward, you buy something or find something or meet someone. In AHLCG you use Resources to put Assets in play, but it might be happening in your own house while you are engaged in a fight - it's very hard for me to picture "Resources" as anything related to the real world at all.

AHLCG has less variation when you replay a Scenario, but there's a lot of variation among the Investigators (especially if you choose to go beyond a single Core Set). The Investigators feel different from each other in meaningful and lasting ways (there's a little of that in EH, but a lot more of Investigators all doing the same sorts of things the same way), and there is a sense of long term Campaign progression as you improve your Investigator's deck. AHLCG puts the Investigators together - in EH, you are often working in parallel but never helping each other directly - if EH teams are like gymnastics teams, AHLCG teams are more like basketball teams.
 
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Bruno Wolff
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I like both games, but play EH a lot more than AHRCG. (I like both more than AH, but play that too.)
I think if you're going to bring in new players from time to time, it is going to be easier to do that with EH.
I think with fixed amounts of expansions, EH has more replayability. Pretty much the base game plus foresaken lore will go a long way. I think EH may be prone to bad starts than AHTCG, but I might not have played enough AHTCG to have a good read on that. Our last two EH games were pretty muched doomed from the start. One week all the initial stuff needed clues and we couldn't ignore the rumors and it took too long to get them. The next week we had Yig and the start had a bunch of doom dropping stuff and a hard first mystery and we got nowhere before doom ran out. We still have fun when that happens, but some people might not. If you pick characters freely after initial setup, then this won't be as big of a deal as you can run a mix of investigators tailored for what needs to be done.
I think with AHTCG it is going to be hard to not buy two cores and at least the first two campaigns to give you enough variety in missions and characters for lots of play throughs.
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Bart Rachemoss
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To be fair, Eldritch Horror almost requires the Forsaken Lore expansion if you want replayability. I encourage you to watch a Cateweazle playthrough of each game to help you make up your mind. You might also want to consider Arkham Horror (the board game). I started out with EH but after watching some Catweazle videos I gave AH a try and I like it better. Also, if you have some patience and shop around a bit, you can get a very good deal on AH combined with all of its expansions. This gives you great bang for your boardgame-buck.

One way to judge board games is by their playing time and weight. Here is what BGG lists for the three games:

Name Play time Weight
---- --------- ------
Arkham Horror TCG 60–120 Min 3.10
Eldritch Horror 120–240 Min 3.31
Arkham Horror 120–360 Min 3.55


Compare those numbers with games that you've already tried that you like and dislike. Mansions of Madness (2nd edition with an app) is rated as lighter than all three of the above. For me, the key to AH and EH is to not try to finish the game in one sitting, but other people prefer to do it all in one go. Another thing to keep in mind is that if you end up liking EH or AH (the board game) then you may end up buying all of the expansions. For me it is easier to resist LCG expansions. There are so many of them that I feel no need to keep up. Maybe I'm weird.
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João Caldinhas
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brunowolff wrote:
I like both games, but play EH a lot more than AHRCG. (I like both more than AH, but play that too.)
I think if you're going to bring in new players from time to time, it is going to be easier to do that with EH.
I think with fixed amounts of expansions, EH has more replayability. Pretty much the base game plus foresaken lore will go a long way. I think EH may be prone to bad starts than AHTCG, but I might not have played enough AHTCG to have a good read on that. Our last two EH games were pretty muched doomed from the start. One week all the initial stuff needed clues and we couldn't ignore the rumors and it took too long to get them. The next week we had Yig and the start had a bunch of doom dropping stuff and a hard first mystery and we got nowhere before doom ran out. We still have fun when that happens, but some people might not. If you pick characters freely after initial setup, then this won't be as big of a deal as you can run a mix of investigators tailored for what needs to be done.
I think with AHTCG it is going to be hard to not buy two cores and at least the first two campaigns to give you enough variety in missions and characters for lots of play throughs.


You raised here some very good points:

- You commented that EH sometimes can have almost unwinnable games from the start. Can the same happen with AH:TCG?

- How mechanically tight is AH:TCG? Is it tight enough to make you want to keep replaying the scenarios based on just solving the challenges?

- You mentioned two core sets and a couple of expansions. Although I don't mind investing in the game, it will consume all my gaming budget and, therefore, it will be the only game I will be playing. Is this game good enough to make me pass on getting other games in favor of expanding it?

As a final note, I will not be bringing additional players, I only play with my girlfriend. Also, I'm not interested in either MoM or AH the board game as alternatives, I looked them over and they didn't have as much appeal to me as these ones do.
 
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Ron
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From my experience, those are to totally different games.

I love Eldritch Horror. As a two player game with my wife, or in a group of players. I've played > 50 games and I'm still hungry for more. This is adventure gaming as it should be. One of the most loved games in my - not exactly small - collection.

Of course I bought the Arkham card game - me and my wife we were totally eager to try it out. But for us, it wasn't what we expected. So we sold it. Why? Many reasons. First and foremost, the deckbuilding thing. You need at least two base games to do it properly. Owning three would be better I guess. Then the randomizer chits ... call me old school, but I strongly prefer shaking dice in my palm or dice cup. And lastly, I tried to imagine how I would store that game after a couple of expansions, and how much time I'd need for deckbuilding before I can really start to game. However, the game seems to be a success, so it's probably just me. meeple
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MC Shudde M'ell
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Caldinhas wrote:
- You mentioned two core sets and a couple of expansions. Although I don't mind investing in the game, it will consume all my gaming budget and, therefore, it will be the only game I will be playing. Is this game good enough to make me pass on getting other games in favor of expanding it?


On a budget, I think Eldritch Horror wins. Buy the base and Forsaken Lore, and you're good for a year. For the same a mount of money, you could get one AHLCG Core, the Dunwich Big Box, and Curse of the Rougarou. That gives you six Scenarios and ten Investigators for whom you could build okay decks for pairs that don't overlap, or poor decks for three carefully chosen Investigators. Those Scenarios do have replay value, especially when you change up your Investigators, but you may feel like what you have is incomplete.
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João Caldinhas
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PzVIE wrote:
From my experience, those are to totally different games.

I love Eldritch Horror. As a two player game with my wife, or in a group of players. I've played > 50 games and I'm still hungry for more. This is adventure gaming as it should be. One of the most loved games in my - not exactly small - collection.

Of course I bought the Arkham card game - me and my wife we were totally eager to try it out. But for us, it wasn't what we expected. So we sold it. Why? Many reasons. First and foremost, the deckbuilding thing. You need at least two base games to do it properly. Owning three would be better I guess. Then the randomizer chits ... call me old school, but I strongly prefer shaking dice in my palm or dice cup. And lastly, I tried to imagine how I would store that game after a couple of expansions, and how much time I'd need for deckbuilding before I can really start to game. However, the game seems to be a success, so it's probably just me. meeple


Quick question, how do you and your wife play EH? Two investigators or four, each player controlling two?

I have read some complains about two investigator games only, but I really hate controlling multiple characters at the same time.
 
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Ron
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Caldinhas wrote:
Quick question, how do you and your wife play EH? Two investigators or four, each player controlling two?

I have read some complains about two investigator games only, but I really hate controlling multiple characters at the same time.

Depends on our mood and available game time: we started the game controlling one character each. This leads to a slightly harder game than controlling two characters each. Nowadays, we like it more epic and play mostly with two chars each. We found it even more colorful that way. But the scaling of the game is really good, so you can play with any number from one to eight characters.
 
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Ian Williams
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Caldinhas wrote:
PzVIE wrote:
From my experience, those are to totally different games.

I love Eldritch Horror. As a two player game with my wife, or in a group of players. I've played > 50 games and I'm still hungry for more. This is adventure gaming as it should be. One of the most loved games in my - not exactly small - collection.

Of course I bought the Arkham card game - me and my wife we were totally eager to try it out. But for us, it wasn't what we expected. So we sold it. Why? Many reasons. First and foremost, the deckbuilding thing. You need at least two base games to do it properly. Owning three would be better I guess. Then the randomizer chits ... call me old school, but I strongly prefer shaking dice in my palm or dice cup. And lastly, I tried to imagine how I would store that game after a couple of expansions, and how much time I'd need for deckbuilding before I can really start to game. However, the game seems to be a success, so it's probably just me. meeple


Quick question, how do you and your wife play EH? Two investigators or four, each player controlling two?

I have read some complains about two investigator games only, but I really hate controlling multiple characters at the same time.


This is the part that tells me you'd be better off with Arkham Horror the card game. My fiance and I play Eldritch all of the time, always with 4 investigators. It just doesn't work with only 2 investigators. The Arkham LCG is designed for that smaller character count.
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mortego
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I own both and though they are very different games they both scratch the same Lovecraft itch. I have in more plays of Eldritch Horror than Arkham Horror LCG but for you I'm willing to bet that the card game would do you best however, know that the card came will lead you down the perverbial "rabbit-hole" ($$$).
 
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João Caldinhas
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celdom wrote:
Caldinhas wrote:
PzVIE wrote:
From my experience, those are to totally different games.

I love Eldritch Horror. As a two player game with my wife, or in a group of players. I've played > 50 games and I'm still hungry for more. This is adventure gaming as it should be. One of the most loved games in my - not exactly small - collection.

Of course I bought the Arkham card game - me and my wife we were totally eager to try it out. But for us, it wasn't what we expected. So we sold it. Why? Many reasons. First and foremost, the deckbuilding thing. You need at least two base games to do it properly. Owning three would be better I guess. Then the randomizer chits ... call me old school, but I strongly prefer shaking dice in my palm or dice cup. And lastly, I tried to imagine how I would store that game after a couple of expansions, and how much time I'd need for deckbuilding before I can really start to game. However, the game seems to be a success, so it's probably just me. meeple


Quick question, how do you and your wife play EH? Two investigators or four, each player controlling two?

I have read some complains about two investigator games only, but I really hate controlling multiple characters at the same time.


This is the part that tells me you'd be better off with Arkham Horror the card game. My fiance and I play Eldritch all of the time, always with 4 investigators. It just doesn't work with only 2 investigators. The Arkham LCG is designed for that smaller character count.


I read somewhere that there were released later on, some revised rules that balanced the gameplay for some player counts. Do they help at 2 player count or the issues remain?
 
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To me, nothing beats the original board game. The card game seems like a step down from the original. I would rather work my pieces on the game board then just flipping cards... no feel at all.
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João Caldinhas
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killerjoe1962 wrote:
I own both and though they are very different games they both scratch the same Lovecraft itch. I have in more plays of Eldritch Horror than Arkham Horror LCG but for you I'm willing to bet that the card game would do you best however, know that the card came will lead you down the perverbial "rabbit-hole" ($$$).


Care to elaborate in a bit more detail why do you think that the card game ill be better for me as opposed to the board game?

As far as the "rabbit-hole" goes, can you please give me your opinion on my following question:

Caldinhas wrote:
Although I don't mind investing in the game, it will consume all my gaming budget and, therefore, it will be the only game I will be playing. Is this game good enough to make me pass on getting other games in favor of expanding it?
 
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Steve Keen
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Caldinhas wrote:
celdom wrote:
Caldinhas wrote:
PzVIE wrote:
From my experience, those are to totally different games.

I love Eldritch Horror. As a two player game with my wife, or in a group of players. I've played > 50 games and I'm still hungry for more. This is adventure gaming as it should be. One of the most loved games in my - not exactly small - collection.

Of course I bought the Arkham card game - me and my wife we were totally eager to try it out. But for us, it wasn't what we expected. So we sold it. Why? Many reasons. First and foremost, the deckbuilding thing. You need at least two base games to do it properly. Owning three would be better I guess. Then the randomizer chits ... call me old school, but I strongly prefer shaking dice in my palm or dice cup. And lastly, I tried to imagine how I would store that game after a couple of expansions, and how much time I'd need for deckbuilding before I can really start to game. However, the game seems to be a success, so it's probably just me. meeple


Quick question, how do you and your wife play EH? Two investigators or four, each player controlling two?

I have read some complains about two investigator games only, but I really hate controlling multiple characters at the same time.


This is the part that tells me you'd be better off with Arkham Horror the card game. My fiance and I play Eldritch all of the time, always with 4 investigators. It just doesn't work with only 2 investigators. The Arkham LCG is designed for that smaller character count.


I read somewhere that there were released later on, some revised rules that balanced the gameplay for some player counts. Do they help at 2 player count or the issues remain?


I think the real issue with 2 investigators is coverage of the map. It can often happen that something nasty will happen far from both players. With 4 you get much better flexibility.
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Richard Gregg
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celdom wrote:
This is the part that tells me you'd be better off with Arkham Horror the card game. My fiance and I play Eldritch all of the time, always with 4 investigators. It just doesn't work with only 2 investigators. The Arkham LCG is designed for that smaller character count.


I've only played EH so far with 2 investigators (either solo or with 2 players) and love it! Yes it's hard, but almost all the games I've played have been so close, so well balanced, that it's come down to the last card that decides if we win or lose. It's so tense, and yet satisfying. I'm in no way an expert at the game, but just enjoy the experience.

I also have the LCG and all the expansions, but haven't played it beyond the core box yet as for me it wasn't that much fun.
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mortego
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Caldinhas wrote:
killerjoe1962 wrote:
I own both and though they are very different games they both scratch the same Lovecraft itch. I have in more plays of Eldritch Horror than Arkham Horror LCG but for you I'm willing to bet that the card game would do you best however, know that the card came will lead you down the perverbial "rabbit-hole" ($$$).


Care to elaborate in a bit more detail why do you think that the card game ill be better for me as opposed to the board game?

As far as the "rabbit-hole" goes, can you please give me your opinion on my following question:

Caldinhas wrote:
Although I don't mind investing in the game, it will consume all my gaming budget and, therefore, it will be the only game I will be playing. Is this game good enough to make me pass on getting other games in favor of expanding it?


You said you were looking at it only playing with two players, right? Arkham Horror LCG is best at 2. Also, there are plenty of expansions to buy for it so you're going to invest money into it I think it'd be well worth your time & money because, in my opinion, it's more bang for your buck.

I would definitely but the core set (two of them if you want to play with more than 2 people) and check it out, the rules aren't so tough but the game is very immersive, it's good to sink your teeth into, well, it was for me.

Like I said, I own both, I like both a lot, I could not choose which one to abandon if I had to.
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João Caldinhas
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Odgregg wrote:
celdom wrote:
This is the part that tells me you'd be better off with Arkham Horror the card game. My fiance and I play Eldritch all of the time, always with 4 investigators. It just doesn't work with only 2 investigators. The Arkham LCG is designed for that smaller character count.


I've only played EH so far with 2 investigators (either solo or with 2 players) and love it! Yes it's hard, but almost all the games I've played have been so close, so well balanced, that it's come down to the last card that decides if we win or lose. It's so tense, and yet satisfying. I'm in no way an expert at the game, but just enjoy the experience.

I also have the LCG and all the expansions, but haven't played it beyond the core box yet as for me it wasn't that much fun.


Mind telling me what drove you away from the LCG? I'm particular interested in your case since you play EH with two investigators.
 
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João Caldinhas
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killerjoe1962 wrote:
You said you were looking at it only playing with two players, right? Arkham Horror LCG is best at 2. Also, there are plenty of expansions to buy for it so you're going to invest money into it I think it'd be well worth your time & money because, in my opinion, it's more bang for your buck.

I would definitely but the core set (two of them if you want to play with more than 2 people) and check it out, the rules aren't so tough but the game is very immersive, it's good to sink your teeth into, well, it was for me.

Like I said, I own both, I like both a lot, I could not choose which one to abandon if I had to.


I think you misunderstood the question, what I meant to ask is if it good enough to justify not playing anything else, because if I invest on it I won't have budget for any board game purchases.

The way you put your answer almost seems like I said that money is no problem for me

Budget wise, I would be buying about an expansion per month, if that helps.
 
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Caldinhas wrote:
killerjoe1962 wrote:
You said you were looking at it only playing with two players, right? Arkham Horror LCG is best at 2. Also, there are plenty of expansions to buy for it so you're going to invest money into it I think it'd be well worth your time & money because, in my opinion, it's more bang for your buck.

I would definitely but the core set (two of them if you want to play with more than 2 people) and check it out, the rules aren't so tough but the game is very immersive, it's good to sink your teeth into, well, it was for me.

Like I said, I own both, I like both a lot, I could not choose which one to abandon if I had to.


I think you misunderstood the question, what I meant to ask is if it good enough to justify not playing anything else, because if I invest on it I won't have budget for any board game purchases.

The way you put your answer almost seems like I said that money is no problem for me

Budget wise, I would be buying about an expansion per month, if that helps.


Oh, I'm sorry I misunderstood.
 
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Eric Apfel
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PzVIE wrote:
From my experience, those are to totally different games.

I love Eldritch Horror. As a two player game with my wife, or in a group of players. I've played > 50 games and I'm still hungry for more. This is adventure gaming as it should be. One of the most loved games in my - not exactly small - collection.

Of course I bought the Arkham card game - me and my wife we were totally eager to try it out. But for us, it wasn't what we expected. So we sold it. Why? Many reasons. First and foremost, the deckbuilding thing. You need at least two base games to do it properly. Owning three would be better I guess. Then the randomizer chits ... call me old school, but I strongly prefer shaking dice in my palm or dice cup. And lastly, I tried to imagine how I would store that game after a couple of expansions, and how much time I'd need for deckbuilding before I can really start to game. However, the game seems to be a success, so it's probably just me. meeple


It's not just you. My friend and I feel the same way. We started with the original Arkham Horror board game when it first came out and loved it. We stuck with it, buying every single expansion (and even the pre-painted minis) and was sad when it finally came to an end. We didn't play it that often due to the enormous time investment required (and the one time we played with ALL expansions required us to make real life sanity checks!) Then Mansions of Madness came out (the version before the app-based one), and we tried it once and shelved it because it just didn't feel fun.

Eldritch Horror came out, and we fell in love with it. It felt like a lighter version of Arkham Horror, one we could play more often since it required less time altogether. The only downside was waiting for the expansions to come out so we could play our favorite investigators again.

Then we tried Arkham Horror LCG. I immediately bought 2 copies of the core set and eventually the first expansion. But it just wasn't as much fun as Eldritch Horror. We weren't a big fan of the pogs and missed the dice (especially since we both own the AH app with the dice). Also it felt like more of an adventure traveling around the world, running across random assets that may or may not be useful for our particular skillsets. Then there's the randomness of the various events that we may or may not be prepared for. It felt like a story unfolding before us.

Maybe it's just that LCGs don't hold our interest for very long. Prebuilding decks just gets to be a chore, especially when you get several waves of little expansions packs. Then certain scenarios require certain cards to beat, so you have to scrap and rebuild your deck for it (at least that was our experience with Lord of the Rings). And it's annoying when you've got that thematic card for your character, but it doesn't come up in your hand.

We definitely didn't hate the LCG. Not at all. We kinda enjoyed it. But it didn't even come close to the level of fun we have playing Eldritch Horror (which we easily have played several dozen times). I created a randomizer for us which picks 2 investigators each for us (we love controlling multiple characters in co-op games), an Ancient One, a Prelude, and a board expansion. We've never gotten bored with it.
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Richard Gregg
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Caldinhas wrote:
Mind telling me what drove you away from the LCG? I'm particular interested in your case since you play EH with two investigators.


There are probably several reasons:

- Deck building: Not really that interesting to me and a bit of a chore as others have mentioned. For those that love looking over all the options, and trying to come up with the perfect combo of cards (that may or may not come up in the game anyway) it'd be great. I played with the supplied decks initially, and then a couple of times with my own decks.
- The stages of the campaign: When playing through the 3 stage core campaign, I often felt by the end of the 2nd stage there was no hope of "winning" and there was little desire to continue onto the 3rd stage. Now from what I've read the Dunwich campaign is better, so I'm trying to psyche myself up to play that at some point.... but that means I have to build some decks! (see first point) :-) Now I can see that having a campaign is a great idea, and perhaps it's just the core campaign that is turning me off.
- Fun: I find Eldritch Horror a lot of fun, even when things are going against you (I only have 5 wins out of 14 games). I don't think "oh, what if I'd included that card in my deck" or "well I wasted 30 minutes building what turned out to be a terrible deck" as may be the case with the LCG.

Just last night I was looking at the unplayed Dunwich campaign and thinking about playing it, however I also have Elder Sign sitting next to it, and that was probably more appealing to play due to no pre-setup of decks required.
 
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If you want story and theme, Mythos Tales and Call of Cthulhu RPG beats them both. Both have a free demo. PM me if you can't find them!
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João Caldinhas
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Sam and Max wrote:
If you want story and theme, Mythos Tales and Call of Cthulhu RPG beats them both. Both have a free demo. PM me if you can't find them!


I want replayability going hand-to-hand with theme, do they have it?
 
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