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Subject: Too luck dependent? rss

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kred raiders
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I have just watched the video and was very disappointed.

I had marked this game as one to definitely pick up at Essen this year.

I like the theme and it looks good.

However, it seems as though you just roll dice and pick up 'stuff '.

Am I missing something?

Some character cards seem to be much stronger than others, so if you place a 6 die on it, you are well on the way to victory.

I think I will not be buying this one, which is a great shame.
 
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Terence Burnett
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I think I just watched the same video as you did "J-Plays".
It would have been nice to see a full play through to see how things pannned out. It's seems on first sight that rolling higher offers the best options but rolling lower allows you to swap out your characters more frequently.

I've still not written this one off but will wait for further opinions on it.
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Ernst Juergen Ridder
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Yesterday we played the game for the first time (3p). It's by far not so luck dependant as you may think.

It's a bit difficult for me to explain that in English, but let me try it:

In the beginning you have 5 "free" dice (orange, blue, white, brown and purple), that you have to role. Than you use one of those dice to pick a card from the color-corresponding city, i.e. place the religion-stone of the card in the town, place one of your houses into that town on the number-corresponding site, take the card, put the used die on it and than use the function of the card for the first time. For this purpose purple is a joker.
So the color of a die determines, from which city you may take a card and where you may place a house. The number of the die says, on what site of the city to place the house and how often you may use the card.

The die you used now lies on the card and so it is not "free" to role it in the next year. Also you can't use it on the action track, where only the color of the die is important.

The more cards you have, the less dice you have for use on the action track.

So it is not always good to use high roled dice on the cards. You may use those cards more often, but your dice are "blocked" for other purposes.

Therefore there is a possibility to take a die back from a card, but that will cost you 3 victory points. If the die is taken from a character-card, that card is lost.

If you use the purple die as a joker to take a card, you may not use the purple action spaces on the action track, as long as the purple die is on the card. Those purple action spaces are those which allow you to sell two goods in a single city.

Please: Never judge on a game, before having read the rules and played it.
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Luiz Cavalcante
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androgeus wrote:
Yesterday we played the game for the first time (3p). It's by far not so luck dependant as you may think.

It's a bit difficult for me to explain that in English, but let me try it:

In the beginning you have 5 "free" dice (orange, blue, white, brown and purple), that you have to role. Than you use one of those dice to pick a card from the color-corresponding city, i.e. place the religion-stone of the card in the town, place one of your houses into that town on the number-corresponding site, take the card, put the used die on it and than use the function of the card for the first time. For this purpose purple is a joker.
So the color of a die determines, from which city you may take a card and where you may place a house. The number of the die says, on what site of the city to place the house and how often you may use the card.

The die you used now lies on the card and so it is not "free" to role it in the next year. Also you can't use it on the action track, where only the color of the die is important.

The more cards you have, the less dice you have for use on the action track.

So it is not always good to use high roled dice on the cards. You may use those cards more often, but your dice are "blocked" for other purposes.

Therefore there is a possibility to take a die back from a card, but that will cost you 3 victory points. If the die is taken from a character-card, that card is lost.

If you use the purple die as a joker to take a card, you may not use the purple action spaces on the action track, as long as the purple die is on the card. Those purple action spaces are those which allow you to sell two goods in a single city.

Please: Never judge on a game, before having read the rules and played it.


Ernst, what did you think of the game? Did you like it?
 
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Ernst Juergen Ridder
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LABRC wrote:


Ernst, what did you think of the game? Did you like it?


After up to now only two games I think it needs more games to judge on this game.

In these two games we had fun. There are some (perhaps a lot?) interesting decisions to make. But two games are not enough to see all the cards and their possible combinations as well as all the other possible actions.

For example: Let us assume, the most interesting card is that at the brown city. You have a brown die to use, so you could take the card. But on the card, there is a purple (catholic) religion-stone which you have to place into the city. In the city there are already 1 purple (catholic) and two neutral religion-stones, so the fourth stone initiates a religious conflict, which the catholics win, because they have the majority. If you are a protestant, you have no interest in that, because the catholics with a house in the city get victory points, whereas you have to take back your just placed house and you get no points.
If you have a protection tile (shield) you may give that away, so you can place the religion-stone on the card back to the supply instead of placing it into the city. Or is it better first to pay 3 victory points to take back the die on your religion card, roll it again and change your religion to catholic and than take the brown card? All that is not so easy to answer because you have to take into account the situation in the other cities and so on. So if you have no other free die left it may be a good idea to pay 1 victory point so you have not to take a card, and may use the brown die on the action track.

For the time being I think in the series of the three "Ken Follett"-games The Pillars of the Earth (Die Säulen der Erde) combined with its expansion (even for 2 players) is the very best game , the second best is World without End (Die Tore der Welt) and the third, but also a good game is A Column of Fire.
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Luiz Cavalcante
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androgeus wrote:
LABRC wrote:


Ernst, what did you think of the game? Did you like it?


After up to now only two games I think it needs more games to judge on this game.

In these two games we had fun. There are some (perhaps a lot?) interesting decisions to make. But two games are not enough to see all the cards and their possible combinations as well as all the other possible actions.

For example: Let us assume, the most interesting card is that at the brown city. You have a brown die to use, so you could take the card. But on the card, there is a purple (catholic) religion-stone which you have to place into the city. In the city there are already 1 purple (catholic) and two neutral religion-stones, so the fourth stone initiates a religious conflict, which the catholics win, because they have the majority. If you are a protestant, you have no interest in that, because the catholics with a house in the city get victory points, whereas you have to take back your just placed house and you get no points.
If you have a protection tile (shield) you may give that away, so you can place the religion-stone on the card back to the supply instead of placing it into the city. Or is it better first to pay 3 victory points to take back the die on your religion card, roll it again and change your religion to catholic and than take the brown card? All that is not so easy to answer because you have to take into account the situation in the other cities and so on. So if you have no other free die left it may be a good idea to pay 1 victory point so you have not to take a card, and may use the brown die on the action track.

For the time being I think in the series of the three "Ken Follett"-games The Pillars of the Earth (Die Säulen der Erde) combined with its expansion (even for 2 players) is the very best game , the second best is World without End (Die Tore der Welt) and the third, but also a good game is A Column of Fire.


Thank you for your detailed explanation! Have you ever played Santiago de Cuba? If you have, do you think both games are of similar weight? I'm asking because I am very fond of Santiago de Cuba, so if they are in any way similar, maybe A Column of Fire can be a good choice for me.
 
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Ernst Juergen Ridder
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@Luiz: Both games have a little bit of similarity.

My actual ratings are:

A Column of Fire: rating 7.5, weight 3
Santiago de Cuba: rating 7, weight 2.
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Luiz Cavalcante
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Great! This is good news for me! Thank you, Ernst.
 
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