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Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Chilling out with Rabbits rss

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Andy Corbett
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So Crypt Chill says "If you fail..." which isn't saying "After" or "When", so if I fail, and I've got a Rabbit's foot to discard, what happens first? I have seen one thread on this and the answer was "you can't exhaust Rabbit's Foot, claim a card, then discard it", but that answer appeared to assume that Crypt Chill had an "After" but it doesn't.

Any thoughts?
 
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MC Shudde M'ell
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Corbetta wrote:
So Crypt Chill says "If you fail..." which isn't saying "After" or "When", so if I fail, and I've got a Rabbit's foot to discard, what happens first? I have seen one thread on this and the answer was "you can't exhaust Rabbit's Foot, claim a card, then discard it", but that answer appeared to assume that Crypt Chill had an "After" but it doesn't.

Any thoughts?


It would be ambiguous if CC had an "after". It's exactly because CC's effect happens at the same time as the Skill Test ("If" = "When" as far as timing is concerned) while RF happens after that it's unambiguous - if RF is your only asset, you lose it, and there's no window that would allow you to discard your new asset gained after failing CC's test.
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Bruno Wolff
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Esgaldil wrote:

It would be ambiguous if CC had an "after". It's exactly because CC's effect happens at the same time as the Skill Test ("If" = "When" as far as timing is concerned) while RF happens after that it's unambiguous - if RF is your only asset, you lose it, and there's no window that would allow you to discard your new asset gained after failing CC's test.

You also have to worry about when during the skill test the effects occur. I'm pretty sure these both occur in 1.6. Crypt Chill seems a bit weird in that the test itself doesn't actually do anything. You just do it and there is an effect triggering off whether or not the test failed. I think for effects that happen when tests fails it will always be this way. But for stuff that happens on success, it can happen in 1.7 which is after 1.6.
 
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Andy Corbett
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Esgaldil wrote:
and there's no window that would allow you to discard your new asset gained after failing CC's test.


I think my wording was a bit ambiguous, I meant to say could I follow this sequence:

Fail CC Test
Exhaust RF because I failed the test
Draw a card because I exhausted RF and put the new card in my hand
Discard RF because of the effect of failing CC

I guess either way I worded it the answer is no and the correct sequence is:
Fail CC Test
Discard Rabbits Foot

...and if I didn't choose to discard RF, I discarded another Assett instead, then I could then choose to use RF's effect.

Sound good?

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MC Shudde M'ell
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Yes.
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Brendan Riley
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Esgaldil wrote:
It would be ambiguous if CC had an "after". It's exactly because CC's effect happens at the same time as the Skill Test ("If" = "When" as far as timing is concerned) while RF happens after that it's unambiguous - if RF is your only asset, you lose it, and there's no window that would allow you to discard your new asset gained after failing CC's test.


Agreed!
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B.D. Flory
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This is wrong.

Effects that happen after you fail a skill test (such as Rabbit's foot) trigger during ST.6 (determine success/failure of test). Crypt Chill doesn't take effect until ST.7 (Apply skill test results).

You may trigger Rabbit's Foot on the failed Crypt Chill test, then discard it to Crypt Chill.
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Bruno Wolff
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bd flory wrote:
This is wrong.

Effects that happen after you fail a skill test (such as Rabbit's foot) trigger during ST.6 (determine success/failure of test). Crypt Chill doesn't take effect until ST.7 (Apply skill test results).

You may trigger Rabbit's Foot on the failed Crypt Chill test, then discard it to Crypt Chill.

Yeah you're right that the effect of crypt chill happens in 1.7, not 1.6. I thought only successful effects were resolved in 1.7, but it is all effects tied directly to the test. Forced and voluntary reactions to success or failure are the ones that happen in 1.6.
 
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Tony Cogan
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After

The word "after" refers to the moment immediately after the specified timing point or triggering condition has fully resolved.


The Rabbit's foot can only be triggered after the Skill Test has been fully resolved.

The skill test has to run pass Step 8 before the after trigger of Rabbits foot can be initiated.

In this instance you fail the skill test for Crypt chill you then apply the consequences losing rabbits foot. The skill test has now ended but unfortunately no more Rabbits foot to trigger.
 
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Joshua Siegfried
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GrimGuvna wrote:
After

The word "after" refers to the moment immediately after the specified timing point or triggering condition has fully resolved.


The Rabbit's foot can only be triggered after the Skill Test has been fully resolved.

The skill test has to run pass Step 8 before the after trigger of Rabbits foot can be initiated.

In this instance you fail the skill test for Crypt chill you then apply the consequences losing rabbits foot. The skill test has now ended but unfortunately no more Rabbits foot to trigger.


Not exactly.

From the FAQ
Quote:

*Reaction Triggered Ability Symbol* or Forced abilities with a triggering condition dependent upon the skill test being successful or unsuccessful (such as “After you successfully investigate,” or “After you fail a skill test by 2 or more”) do not trigger at this time. These abilities are triggered during Step 6, “Determine success/failure of skill test.”


Rabbit's Foot says "*Reaction Triggered Ability Symbol* After you fail a skill test, exhaust Rabbit's Foot: Draw 1 card."

What you quoted pertains to cards like Evidence (Fast. Play after you defeat an enemy. Discover 1 clue at your location.) which is not Forced or a Reaction Triggered Ability.

Edit: Sorry, I can't type that symbol so I replaced it with "Reaction Triggered Ability".

 
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B.D. Flory
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GrimGuvna wrote:
After

The word "after" refers to the moment immediately after the specified timing point or triggering condition has fully resolved.


The Rabbit's foot can only be triggered after the Skill Test has been fully resolved.

The skill test has to run pass Step 8 before the after trigger of Rabbits foot can be initiated.

In this instance you fail the skill test for Crypt chill you then apply the consequences losing rabbits foot. The skill test has now ended but unfortunately no more Rabbits foot to trigger.


The triggering condition is not the encounter card, or the completion of the skill test procedure. It's failing the skill test, which fully resolves in ST.6. Applying the results resolves in ST.7 (and requires determining success/failure to have already resolved, or you wouldn't be able to apply success/failure results). If a card reacts to taking a skill test, or a fight or investigate action that resolves upon completion of the action, which is after ST.8.

In other words, triggering conditions are as fine as is indicated by the react trigger or passive condition's text.
 
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