Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Innovation Deluxe» Forums » Rules

Subject: Echoes and Sharing vs Demands rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jason M
Canada
Nepean
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Finally played with Echoes for the first time last night. Enjoyed it, but had a contentious ruling come up. One of the players had a card with a demand dogma of some sort, and an echo effect "draw a 1."

So, obviously the echo effect goes before the demand dogma, but who does it affect?

Is it part of the demand dogma being activated, thus forcing susceptible players to draw a 1?

Or is it evaluated separately from the demand dogma being activated, and affect basically everyone except those susceptible to the demand? Is the player using the card essentially activating a shared dogma inside his demand dogma? And is the sharing eligibility based on the icon associated with the demand dogma?

It was the only card we had come up that seemed conflicted, so maybe it's a rare thing to happen, but it derailed us, and neither the rule book nor the reference card could straighten things out.

But yeah, the player had the most crowns of the three of us, and so the first time, he demanded us to draw a 1 before the rest of the demand dogma, but then later we thought that might be wrong, and then he (still having the most crowns) was the only one eligible to draw a 1, before then demanding us to do whatever the dogma said.

Thanks in advance
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
zerothefool wrote:
So, obviously the echo effect goes before the demand dogma, but who does it affect?


The player and anyone who shares it.

This is no different from any card with both demand and non-demand effects.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Keep in mind that when you resolve cards, you usually resolve each Dogma effect one at a time throughout the card. Echo effects simply go as if they were before the other Dogma effects written on the card. All Echo effects are their own non-demand Dogmas effects.

So the order is:

1: Determine who is going to share (i.e., sharers) and who is going to be demanded from (i.e., demandees) by counting the primary icon.

2: Execute the non-demand Echo effect, sharing with the sharers first.

3: Execute the Demand dogma effect from the card, targeting the demandees,

4: Execute any non-demand effects that follow the Demand effect (if any) in the order on the card, sharing each with the sharers first.

5: If the board state changed in steps 2 or 4, take a free Draw Action for sharing.

Edit: In your example, only he should draw a 1, as nobody was eligible to share.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B C Z
United States
Reston
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Clipper wrote:
Keep in mind that when you resolve cards, you usually resolve each Dogma effect one at a time throughout the card. Echo effects simply go as if they were before the other Dogma effects written on the card. All Echo effects are their own non-demand Dogmas effects.

So the order is:

1: Determine who is going to share (i.e., sharers) and who is going to be demanded from (i.e., demandees) by counting the primary icon.

2: Execute the non-demand Echo effect, sharing with the sharers first.

3: Execute the Demand dogma effect from the card, targeting the demandees,

4: Execute any non-demand effects that follow the Demand effect (if any) in the order on the card, sharing each with the sharers first.

5: If the board state changed in steps 2 or 4, take a free Draw Action for sharing.

Edit: In your example, only he should draw a 1, as nobody was eligible to share.


3/4 are not necessarily in that order. If a demand happens later on a card than a share, then do them in the order listed.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, if 4 is "Execute any non-demand effects that follow the Demand effect," then, by definition, 4 comes after 3.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have never seen a card that has a demand effect after a non-demand effect. It's possible this happens in Artifacts as I haven't tested it out yet, but I'm almost certain it never happens in the base game nor Echoes.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Cieslik
United States
Arlington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Banana!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Clipper wrote:
I have never seen a card that has a demand effect after a non-demand effect. It's possible this happens in Artifacts as I haven't tested it out yet, but I'm almost certain it never happens in the base game nor Echoes.


This indeed does not ever happen.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks Chris. Good to know my memory isn't failing me.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason M
Canada
Nepean
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Okay, good. We course corrected in the right direction, then. It's good to get all these issues out of the way in advance of playing with all 4 expansions at once (still have to play base + Figures).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B C Z
United States
Reston
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
angelkurisu wrote:
Clipper wrote:
I have never seen a card that has a demand effect after a non-demand effect. It's possible this happens in Artifacts as I haven't tested it out yet, but I'm almost certain it never happens in the base game nor Echoes.


This indeed does not ever happen.


I thought there was one weird situation where it does.

Maybe it's a non-demand that feels like a demand because no-one ever actually wants it to happen. Too many cards to go find the situation.

Thank you for the clarification.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
W. Craig Trader
United States
Sterling
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
byronczimmer wrote:
I thought there was one weird situation where it does.

Thank you for the clarification.

Maybe you were thinking of 'Fission'?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.