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My original question (with shit formatting):

Vidyaraja wrote:

Rules Question:
Hello, some of rules question regarding Twilight Imperium 4: Letnev racial promissory note: can it be played at a moment when the Letnev has 1 or 0 TGs? In that case, does the Letnev faction lose "up to 2" and the player who used the note still gain the effect? Arborec and production: are Leitani Warriors in the same system pooling their production so that, for example, if I have 1 infantry each on two different planets I can produce 2 infantry units for 1 resource and divide them among my planets as I wish? Arborec and production: since production is pooled, what happens if I produce in a system where I have an Arborec Space Dock and an Arborec infantry? How does this interact with the limitation imposed on SD production? Does it mean that of the pooled production, only one point can be used to produce one infantry (no Leitani Warrior II purchased) at a cost of 1 resource? Transactions: can TGs and notes only be traded as part of a transaction, meaning exclusively during the player action phase and when casting votes for a political card? Valefar Assimilator: can the X/Y tokens be moved around after being first placed as the Nekro player gets the chance to copy more racial techs? For example, let's say I have already copied Hybrid Crystal Fighter II and Wormhole Generator but then I destroy a Sol unit: can I decide I'd rather have Advanced Carrier II and move my token from Wormhole Generator to that tech? Valefar Assimilator again: what happens if a player whose tech is currently copied is eliminated from the game? Valefar Assimilator again: what happens if for whatever reason (replacing, player elimination) the Nekro lose a copied tech and this causes an impossible situation on the map? Example: losing Prototype War Sun II while the Nekro never copied War Sun and they have one on the map (their racial sheets shows no stats for a War Sun), losing Floating Factory II while their Docks are flying in a firnedly system / hostile system / empty space, losing some faction upgrade causing capacity in a system to drop, losing Magmus Reactor while they have ships in a supernova system... Thanks for your attention and the time you are dedicating to us; my gaming group can't wait to start playing TI4 and we hopew this edition will be the best TI can be! Alessandro


Mr. Beltrami's answer in its entirety:

Dave Beltrami wrote:

Hey Alessandro,
Thanks for all the questions!

1. You can still use the Letnev promissory note in the event that the Letnev has 1 or 0 trade goods. In that case, as you have guessed, the Letnev loses up to 2 trade goods.
2. Letani Warriors in the same system can pool their production. You can use them to produce infantry in the way that you described (though the infantry must be placed on a planet that has a Letani Warrior on it).
3. When pooling Letani Warrior with space dock production, as per the Arborec’s “Mitosis” faction ability, the production contributed by the Spack Dock cannot be used to produce infantry.
4. That is correct regarding transactions. You can make transactions during the Action Phase (restricted by neighbors and player turns) and during the Agenda Phase (freely) but not during the Strategy or Status Phases. Not that this does not prevent you from talking with other players and negotiating deals during that time, but the terms of a deal that involves trade goods cannot be immediately resolved during that time and thus cannot be considered binding.
5. The Valefar Assimilator token can be moved, though this would mean that as opposed to gaining a new tech, you were switching out one for another.
6. If a player is eliminated from the game while his tech has a Valefar Assimilator token on it, the Nekro player takes that tech and places it in his play area until such time as the game ends or he moves that token, in which case the tech is returned to the box along with the eliminated player’s other components.
7. If the Nekro player chooses to swap out his Prototype War Sun II tech, all of his War Suns are destroyed (unless, for some reason, he chose to swap it for a standard War Sun II tech, which would never happen in practice). In a similar situation regarding Floating Factory II, the Nekro would be forced to move each of his apace docks from the space are to a planet he controls in that system. If there are no eligible planets in a space dock’s system, either because the Nekro does not control any planets there, because the system has no planets, or because he already has a space dock on each eligible planet, then that space dock is destroyed.
8. Losing Magmus Reactor in a supernova has no effect on the ships in the supernova, as the effects of a supernova do not kill ships, only restrict or disallow movement.

Let me know if you have any other questions or need further clarification, and I’d be glad to help. Happy gaming!


I didn't ask about losing Advanced Carrier II, but I guess the extra GFs would follow a similar ruling to Space Docks. Though it could also be argued that SDs behave like this to not making switching techs too punishing for the Nekro in that case, but GFs are simply lost.
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Vidyaraja wrote:
I didn't ask about losing Advanced Carrier II, but I guess the extra GFs would follow a similar ruling to Space Docks. Though it could also be argued that SDs behave like this to not making switching techs too punishing for the Nekro in that case, but GFs are simply lost.

If Nekro lost Advanced Carrier II, I don't think they would have the option of moving excess GFs to a planet - they simply have their capacity reduced and would have to destroy any excess units. However, if after the reduction in capacity they still are good to go, then nothing happens.

The Floating Factory thing is different because of how Space Docks normally work, but losing capacity wouldn't be any different than losing capacity in any other way.
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I don't like the Nekro War Sun prototype rule. What if the Nekro had War Sun I and later got War Sun Prototype II? Per this ruling the Nekro would lose their war suns even though they still have War Sun tech. I disagree that this would never happen I practice. The Nekro might have War Sun Prototype II but want to swap it out for a different tech, giving them tactical flexibility.
 
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halbower wrote:
I don't like the Nekro War Sun prototype rule. What if the Nekro had War Sun I and later got War Sun Prototype II? Per this ruling the Nekro would lose their war suns even though they still have War Sun tech. I disagree that this would never happen I practice. The Nekro might have War Sun Prototype II but want to swap it out for a different tech, giving them tactical flexibility.


Dave said the example that would never happen is swapping Prototype Warsun II for regular War Sun explicitly, and he is quite right no one would actually do that. But he said if you swapped it for another tech, all war suns are indeed destroyed. I'm assuming you misread his answer if there is still confusion.
 
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halbower wrote:
I don't like the Nekro War Sun prototype rule. What if the Nekro had War Sun I and later got War Sun Prototype II? Per this ruling the Nekro would lose their war suns even though they still have War Sun tech.

I don't think the ruling necessarily covers that specific situation. I think the ruling is assuming that they do NOT have the War Sun tech. Probably worth a follow up, but that's the way I would read it.

I've sent a rules question to verify.
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At my table, if the Nekro already had War Sun and acquired then lost Prototype War Sun II (or acquired PWSII and after that acquired War Sun too), I'd allow them to keep the War Sun units following the normal unit upgrade rule. Seems sensible.
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halbower wrote:
I don't like the Nekro War Sun prototype rule. What if the Nekro had War Sun I and later got War Sun Prototype II? Per this ruling the Nekro would lose their war suns even though they still have War Sun tech. I disagree that this would never happen I practice. The Nekro might have War Sun Prototype II but want to swap it out for a different tech, giving them tactical flexibility.


I don't believe that's what his ruling was saying. He basically said, if you get rid of a war sun tech, and don't have another war sun tech to replace it, you lose your war suns. But in the fairly unlikely event that you downgrade from Prototype II to standard War Suns, you would keep the war suns. He keeps referring to standard War Sun II tech, but that is not a tech. There are only War Suns and Prototype War Sun II.

The "Swap Out" he was referring to was not War Sun to War Sun, but from PWSII racial tech to a different racial tech (of which there is no replacement war sun). So, in order to downgrade, you would have to have preemptively bought War Sun tech (which is the same cost as PWSII, which is why he referred to this occurrence as unlikely. It's a lot of tech purchasing to DOWNGRADE a tech).
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This is a VERY useful post, thank you!
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For what it's worth, got a quick turnaround on the follow-up question:

From Dane: "Sorry for the confusion. My answer was definitely a little confusing. You can keep your war suns if you change out your Prototype War Sun II for another faction specific technology, provided that you already have the War Sun technology from any other source, was the information I had intended to convey."

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Since the Nekro can copy Floating Factories, can a Clan of Saar floating factory coexist with a Nekro floating factory? That is, if neither had any ships?
 
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halbower wrote:
Since the Nekro can copy Floating Factories, can a Clan of Saar floating factory coexist with a Nekro floating factory? That is, if neither had any ships?

Yes. Another user sent a few questions in and sent me the answers he got. He was reluctant to post because of the footer FFG has on their emails, but for this question, the answer was they can coexist, at least until one of them builds a ship there.
 
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Can both retreat from combat if a 3rd party activates the system? That is, if both the Nekro and the Clan have Skilled Retreat?
 
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halbower wrote:
Can both retreat from combat if a 3rd party activates the system? That is, if both the Nekro and the Clan have Skilled Retreat?

I do not think any of them can use Skilled Retreat, because the 3rd player's fleet does not start a combat. It just blockades (and destroys) both space docks.
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Nekro being able to move (instead of just copy once) their racial tech tokens is scary. I was expecting the other ruling.
I do agree that if the target is eliminated they can keep the racial tech they stole (and in this case until they move it to something else)
 
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bogzal wrote:
halbower wrote:
Can both retreat from combat if a 3rd party activates the system? That is, if both the Nekro and the Clan have Skilled Retreat?

I do not think any of them can use Skilled Retreat, because the 3rd player's fleet does not start a combat. It just blockades (and destroys) both space docks.


At what point do you check for a blockade?
 
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halbower wrote:
bogzal wrote:
halbower wrote:
Can both retreat from combat if a 3rd party activates the system? That is, if both the Nekro and the Clan have Skilled Retreat?

I do not think any of them can use Skilled Retreat, because the 3rd player's fleet does not start a combat. It just blockades (and destroys) both space docks.


At what point do you check for a blockade?

I would say anytime an enemy ship is there. Space Docks cannot be part of combat, so if an enemy ship moves in, both would be destroyed without a fight.
 
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sigmazero13 wrote:
halbower wrote:
bogzal wrote:
halbower wrote:
Can both retreat from combat if a 3rd party activates the system? That is, if both the Nekro and the Clan have Skilled Retreat?

I do not think any of them can use Skilled Retreat, because the 3rd player's fleet does not start a combat. It just blockades (and destroys) both space docks.


At what point do you check for a blockade?

I would say anytime an enemy ship is there. Space Docks cannot be part of combat, so if an enemy ship moves in, both would be destroyed without a fight.


So if the Mentak moved 1 destroyer into a system with a Clan spacedock, the spacedock is destroyed immediately? Not after PDS fire? After movement but before PDS fire? Obviously where I'm going with this is that the PDS fire could eliminate the moving ships.
 
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halbower wrote:

So if the Mentak moved 1 destroyer into a system with a Clan spacedock, the spacedock is destroyed immediately? Not after PDS fire? After movement but before PDS fire? Obviously where I'm going with this is that the PDS fire could eliminate the moving ships.


Well seems that way. Here is answers i got from FFG.

Can they retreat in any situation?

1.) Space dock alone in a system and enemy destroyer move in. Is space dock just destroyed?
2.) Space dock with fighters and enemy destroyer move in. Combat start - can Saar announce retreat and move spacedock out with surviving ships?
3.) Space dock with fighters and support ship and enemy fleet move in. Combat start - can Saar announce retreat and move spacedock out with rest of surviving ships?
4.) Can they use card "skilled retreat" in any of the situations


Hey Fedor,
No problem, I’m happy to answer any number of questions.
As a rule, in any situation where a Floating Factory is alone with enemy ships, it is destroyed before it can retreat.
1) The space dock is destroyed.
2) The space dock can attempt to retreat with the other ships (in this case—just its own fighters).
3) The space dock can attempt to retreat with the other ships.
4) Provided that the space dock is not alone with enemy ships at any point, it can be moved with skilled retreat.
Hope that clears things up


Last point.
I am assuming this all happens after space cannon fire part.
So lonely Space Dock can still be saved if all enemy ships destroyed by Space Cannon fire, or it is lost as soon as they enter and there are no ships to protect it.

Hey Fedor,

I’m afraid not—if the Saar Space dock was alone when the ships move in, it is destroyed, though the space cannons can certainly attempt to avenge it.
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dbeltrami@fantasyflightgames.com


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Next question:

Clan of Saar has a spacedock and a dreadnaught in a system.
The Mentak move in with 2 cruisers, 1 carrier, 4 fighters and 2 ground forces.

During PDS step, the dreadnaught is destroyed. Also the Mentak's 2 cruisers and carrier are destroyed. But the Mentak's fighters survived the PDS fire.

Now the Clan's spacedock is alone with enemy ships. However those ships are imminently going to be destroyed themselves because of lack of capacity.

Which happens first: the check for fighter capacity or the check for blockaded spacedock?
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I would say those fighters would not survive SPACE CANNON OFFENSE sub-step of tactical action, because they are allowed to exceed capacity during the space combat only. In any other situation they are destroyed together with the unit that provides capacity.

Still I think it does not answer your question, because I am not sure if SPACE CANNON OFFENSE casualties are taken simultaneously or in any order (see 66.5).
 
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halbower wrote:
Next question:

Clan of Saar has a spacedock and a dreadnaught in a system.
The Mentak move in with 2 cruisers, 1 carrier, 4 fighters and 2 ground forces.

During PDS step, the dreadnaught is destroyed. Also the Mentak's 2 cruisers and carrier are destroyed. But the Mentak's fighters survived the PDS fire.

Now the Clan's spacedock is alone with enemy ships. However those ships are imminently going to be destroyed themselves because of lack of capacity.

Which happens first: the check for fighter capacity or the check for blockaded spacedock?

Well have you posted this question to FFG rules form? (Also I am trying to figure out combination of tech that would force taking non figthers as casualty first to even have this. But still valid question.
 
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Oh no.
 
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halbower wrote:
Oh no.

Why not?
 
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Vidyaraja wrote:
My original question (with shit formatting):

[q="Vidyaraja"]
Rules Question:
Hello, some of rules question regarding Twilight Imperium 4: Letnev racial promissory note: can it be played at a moment when the Letnev has 1 or 0 TGs? In that case, does the Letnev faction lose "up to 2" and the player who used the note still gain the effect? Arborec and production: are Leitani Warriors in the same system pooling their production so that, for example, if I have 1 infantry each on two different planets I can produce 2 infantry units for 1 resource and divide them among my planets as I wish? Arborec and production: since production is pooled, what happens if I produce in a system where I have an Arborec Space Dock and an Arborec infantry? How does this interact with the limitation imposed on SD production? Does it mean that of the pooled production, only one point can be used to produce one infantry (no Leitani Warrior II purchased) at a cost of 1 resource? Transactions: can TGs and notes only be traded as part of a transaction, meaning exclusively during the player action phase and when casting votes for a political card? Valefar Assimilator: can the X/Y tokens be moved around after being first placed as the Nekro player gets the chance to copy more racial techs? For example, let's say I have already copied Hybrid Crystal Fighter II and Wormhole Generator but then I destroy a Sol unit: can I decide I'd rather have Advanced Carrier II and move my token from Wormhole Generator to that tech? Valefar Assimilator again: what happens if a player whose tech is currently copied is eliminated from the game? Valefar Assimilator again: what happens if for whatever reason (replacing, player elimination) the Nekro lose a copied tech and this causes an impossible situation on the map? Example: losing Prototype War Sun II while the Nekro never copied War Sun and they have one on the map (their racial sheets shows no stats for a War Sun), losing Floating Factory II while their Docks are flying in a firnedly system / hostile system / empty space, losing some faction upgrade causing capacity in a system to drop, losing Magmus Reactor while they have ships in a supernova system... Thanks for your attention and the time you are dedicating to us; my gaming group can't wait to start playing TI4 and we hopew this edition will be the best TI can be! Alessandro


Mr. Beltrami's answer in its entirety:

Dave Beltrami]
Hey Alessandro,
Thanks for all the questions!

1. You can still use the Letnev promissory note in the event that the Letnev has 1 or 0 trade goods. In that case, as you have guessed, the Letnev loses up to 2 trade goods.
2. Letani Warriors in the same system can pool their production. You can use them to produce infantry in the way that you described (though the infantry must be placed on a planet that has a Letani Warrior on it).
3. When pooling Letani Warrior with space dock production, as per the Arborec’s “Mitosis” faction ability, the production contributed by the Spack Dock cannot be used to produce infantry.
4. That is correct regarding transactions. You can make transactions during the Action Phase (restricted by neighbors and player turns) and during the Agenda Phase (freely) but not during the Strategy or Status Phases. Not that this does not prevent you from talking with other players and negotiating deals during that time, but the terms of a deal that involves trade goods cannot be immediately resolved during that time and thus cannot be considered binding.
5. The Valefar Assimilator token can be moved, though this would mean that as opposed to gaining a new tech, you were switching out one for another.
6. If a player is eliminated from the game while his tech has a Valefar Assimilator token on it, the Nekro player takes that tech and places it in his play area until such time as the game ends or he moves that token, in which case the tech is returned to the box along with the eliminated player’s other components.
7. If the Nekro player chooses to swap out his Prototype War Sun II tech, all of his War Suns are destroyed (unless, for some reason, he chose to swap it for a standard War Sun II tech, which would never happen in practice). In a similar situation regarding Floating Factory II, the Nekro would be forced to move each of his apace docks from the space are to a planet he controls in that system. If there are no eligible planets in a space dock’s system, either because the Nekro does not control any planets there, because the system has no planets, or because he already has a space dock on each eligible planet, then that space dock is destroyed.
8. Losing Magmus Reactor in a supernova has no effect on the ships in the supernova, as the effects of a supernova do not kill ships, only restrict or disallow movement.

Let me know if you have any other questions or need further clarification, and I’d be glad to help. Happy gaming!
[/q wrote:


I didn't ask about losing Advanced Carrier II, but I guess the extra GFs would follow a similar ruling to Space Docks. Though it could also be argued that SDs behave like this to not making switching techs too punishing for the Nekro in that case, but GFs are simply lost.


Sorry for the long quote. I have a small question about the answer 2.
In this case, "though the infantry must be placed on a planet that has a Letani Warrior on it" means that you should put each Letani Warrior on 2 different planets, and you cannot put 2 infantries on the same planet with a Letani Warrior which used its PRODUCTION ability, right?
 
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Pretty sure that just means that you can't put it on a planet that didn't already have a unit with production. It doesn't say anything about splitting the infantry up.
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