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Subject: Icy Maze Event - minor spoiler "Each Character Must Randomly Discard..." rss

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Curtiss Cox
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From Icy Maze, Exploration event


A card's instruction reads: "Each character must randomly discard as many cards from the Action deck as the number of [Red Hand] cards they have in hand."

The Action deck is empty so instead of discarding we are revealing cards and hoping not to get a curse.

My question: Are the total number of cards pulled at once from the face down discard pile, or is Player 1's number pulled, resolved, and put back, then Player 2's number of cards pulled, resolved and put back? (i.e. Do I pull 8 cards and hope not to get a curse, or do I pull 4 cards twice?)


Edited for clarity and specific wording.
 
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Randal Divinski
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Re: "Each Involved Player Must Discard..."
Assuming the rest of that instruction is "... from the top of the Action Deck" (as it is a possible consequence to discard from you hand as well), then I believe you would resolve this for each character in turn, starting with the active player.

I cannot, however, think of how this could make any difference, as I don't think anything could be done between one character's discard and the next?

On second thought, I can think of ONE thing. If you are playing with the 777 card, and you draw a curse on the first action, use the 777 card to reconstitute the Action Deck. Would you continue with discards at that point? If I was playing, I would consider "near death" (via 777) to terminate the previous consequence, and just move ahead. [And since this is what makes sense to me, then perhaps I am overruling my first assertion and treating it as one discard, not multiple.]
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Rob McArthur
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Re: "Each Involved Player Must Discard..."
randiv wrote:

I cannot, however, think of how this could make any difference, as I don't think anything could be done between one character's discard and the next?


When you draw from the discard pile, you put those cards back before the next action. So the question becomes if there are 3 involved players and they have to discard 2 cards, then do you draw 6, check for curse, then reshuffle? Or do you draw 2, check, and shuffle three times?

The rules don't make it clear, but I'm going to say individually because the rules for state indicate that if multiple players each get a state, they must do so individually.
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Crazed Survivor
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Re: "Each Involved Player Must Discard..."
I have never encountered a card that forces each player to discard cards from the action deck.

If it happened I'd assume that the first player discards. If no curse was revealed, the cards are shuffled back, and the next player discards, and so on.
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Joseph Cochran
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Re: "Each Involved Player Must Discard..."
CheddarLimbo wrote:
A card's instruction reads "Each involved character must discard X cards..." The Action deck is empty so instead of discarding we are revealing cards and hoping not to get a curse.


I think that means to discard from your hand of cards or your inventory, not from the action deck (depending on the text after the "..."). At least all the ones I've seen like that are that way.
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Curtiss Cox
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Re: "Each Involved Player Must Discard..."
Edited for clarity. Cards are being randomly discarded from the Action deck - not the hand.

We played that you resolve one player at a time, and yes it does matter because there is a statistical difference in checking 8 cards once versus 4 cards twice.
 
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Dan Hollow
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CheddarLimbo wrote:
Edited for clarity. Cards are being randomly discarded from the Action deck - not the hand.

We played that you resolve one player at a time, and yes it does matter because there is a statistical difference in checking 8 cards once versus 4 cards twice.


I believe that is correct because you're dealing with the state cards. It's basically an every character draws a state card with a discard icon-effect. And the way those get resolved is described in the rules on page 16 in the example:

Quote:
Example : Bruno has the following State cards in hand: paranoid and freezing. He takes an action and Ludovic decides to get involved in it. The action is a failure and the consequence is “Each involved character takes a 104 card”. Bruno takes a 104 card and gets injured. Since the icon can be seen on the revealed card, Bruno immediately discards 3 cards from the top of the Action Deck (1 for his Character card, 1 for his paranoid state, and 1 for his freezing state), then he adds the injured state card to his hand.

Ludovic too takes a 104 card. Since the icon cannot be seen on this card, he does not have to discard any cards from the Action Deck. Ludovic adds the injured state card to his hand.

Since several players were involved in the action and it was a failure, Bruno, as the active player, must take a 100 card and gets paranoid. The icon can be seen on the revealed card, so Bruno immediately discards 4 cards from the top of the Action Deck (1 for each card he has in hand). Since he is already paranoid, he returns the paranoid card he had in hand and replaces it with the paranoid card he has just taken.


Basically in this example discarding cards is done for each of the states drawn with discard icons individually and if they were drawing from the discard pile they'd reshuffle it each time. Otherwise they would have tallied all the cards and discarded them at the end.
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Curtiss Cox
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Brackwater wrote:
CheddarLimbo wrote:
Edited for clarity. Cards are being randomly discarded from the Action deck - not the hand.

We played that you resolve one player at a time, and yes it does matter because there is a statistical difference in checking 8 cards once versus 4 cards twice.


I believe that is correct because you're dealing with the state cards. It's basically an every character draws a state card with a discard icon-effect. And the way those get resolved is described in the rules on page 16 in the example:

Quote:
Example : Bruno has the following State cards in hand: paranoid and freezing. He takes an action and Ludovic decides to get involved in it. The action is a failure and the consequence is “Each involved character takes a 104 card”. Bruno takes a 104 card and gets injured. Since the icon can be seen on the revealed card, Bruno immediately discards 3 cards from the top of the Action Deck (1 for his Character card, 1 for his paranoid state, and 1 for his freezing state), then he adds the injured state card to his hand.

Ludovic too takes a 104 card. Since the icon cannot be seen on this card, he does not have to discard any cards from the Action Deck. Ludovic adds the injured state card to his hand.

Since several players were involved in the action and it was a failure, Bruno, as the active player, must take a 100 card and gets paranoid. The icon can be seen on the revealed card, so Bruno immediately discards 4 cards from the top of the Action Deck (1 for each card he has in hand). Since he is already paranoid, he returns the paranoid card he had in hand and replaces it with the paranoid card he has just taken.


Basically in this example discarding cards is done for each of the states drawn with discard icons individually and if they were drawing from the discard pile they'd reshuffle it each time. Otherwise they would have tallied all the cards and discarded them at the end.


Yep, I am aware of this rule and if the card in question used the discard symbol seen on State cards I would also assume that it is handled that way.

But the fact that a symbol that communicates this idea exists in the game but was not used is exactly why I'm asking the question to clarify. Maybe they felt like just using the symbol would be confusing and chose to spell it out in a sentence instead?
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Dan Hollow
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CheddarLimbo wrote:

But the fact that a symbol that communicates this idea exists in the game but was not used is exactly why I'm asking the question to clarify. Maybe they felt like just using the symbol would be confusing and chose to spell it out in a sentence instead?


I agree, they could have chosen to put in a hidden state card only with the discard symbol and "return this" on it instead.

I'm assuming that they didn't want to put in another card into the deck and figured, probably correctly, that some players would overlook the discard symbol on a non-state card.

I mean, I'm just guessing here, but if we look at the different draw/discard mechanisms described in the manual (action drawing, state card discarding, trading discarding), this special case is really similar to the state card discard process, but without the usual trigger.

Speaking of the way it's worded: I would assume if you had to discard everything at once it would be worded "discard a card from the action deck for each red card in the hands of all the players."

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