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Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients» Forums » Rules

Subject: Dark Stone Dynomite Bandido Ability rss

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Maurice Oksman
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So the Bandido has a ability in his explosives tree, called Dark Stone Dynomite:

Once per turn, Use 1 Dark Stone when Throwing a Dynomite Token to add +2 damage to each model affected*

*Side Note: the eratta has adjusted this word from Hit to affected, but this ha NOT what my question is about.

I'm wondering if the Bandido needs to commit using a Darkstone BEFORE rolling to Hit OR can he do it AFTER he Hits. In most of the similar cases (Gunslinger's Deadeye Shot, Blacksmith's Dark Stone Enhancement,etc...) it's usually done AFTER the hit is confirmed.

Thank you!

 
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Ken H.
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Maurice_Oksman wrote:
So the Bandido has a ability in his explosives tree, called Dark Stone Dynomite:

Once per turn, Use 1 Dark Stone when Throwing a Dynomite Token to add +2 damage to each model affected*

*Side Note: the eratta has adjusted this word from Hit to affected, but this ha NOT what my question is about.

I'm wondering if the Bandido needs to commit using a Darkstone BEFORE rolling to Hit OR can he do it AFTER he Hits. In most of the similar cases (Gunslinger's Deadeye Shot, Blacksmith's Dark Stone Enhancement,etc...) it's usually done AFTER the hit is confirmed.

Thank you!



Good question, because it says "when throwing", which implies that you might have to do it before you roll to hit or damage.

I think "use modifiers AFTER the die roll" is a standard Flying Frog timing rule, even if it isn't necessarily spelled out anywhere.

Personally, I would continue to use the standard rule for Darkstone Dynamite. For one thing, I'm not sure the "when throwing" language was intended to change the default rule. I think it was just another way of saying "The +2 damage only applies to dynamite use, and not other explosives or attacks."

For a second thing, dynamite is just not that good. After second or third level, you almost always have gear and skills that are more effective than a dynamite attack, except for rare circumstances. Maybe dynamite remains useful for some final battles for a couple more levels, I don't know. But the point is, Darkstone Dynamite is not so powerful that it needs to be nerfed by changing the default rule of using modifiers after the damage roll.



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Maurice Oksman
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Yeah, I have a Level 5 Bandida, which is a Twin Gun expert, but she her 5+ to Hit with range attacks gets old quick, especially in situations that gave her -1 to hit (meaning she was only hitting on 6). I was rolling a crazy number of dice and eating grit like candy from her Abilities/Re-rolls.

Honestly, she's not bad, but she was constantly outshined by all my other heroes. I usually solo a party of 4 (I have 8 heroes, 4 from each base set), and the bigger problem was she lacked a unique roll in the party.

I actually just decided to convert her to a dynomite Bandido of equal level. I usually don't change characters like that, but a Dynomite/Melee hero will just be more unique in my party. I'll give my new 'Transgendered' Bandido more than just Dynomite to play with though. He already accumulated a couple specialty grenades + my donkey has been carrying around the Janky Thun Disintergrator and with 6 strength, he's the only one that can even use it. Granted i've now thrown away the 'best years' of a dynomite thrower's life with this swap, by skipping the early levels, but i think he'll be more unique in the party.

I guess I could have waited 1 more Level till I got 4+ Range Attack, but, again, that wouldn't have fixed her lack of uniqueness. The New Bandido will still be a mix of sorts, between being a grenader, Artillery and Melee hero, but I figured it'll just be more interesting, not necessarily better.

Thanks for the prompt answer!

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Adria D
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Maurice_Oksman wrote:
Yeah, I have a Level 5 Bandida, which is a Twin Gun expert, but she her 5+ to Hit with range attacks gets old quick, especially in situations that gave her -1 to hit (meaning she was only hitting on 6). I was rolling a crazy number of dice and eating grit like candy from her Abilities/Re-rolls.

Did you not take her straight up the gun path? If so, you should have the 4+ to-hit at level 5. That plus the ability to crit while dual-wielding is pretty good. It's slow getting there, but a slow ramp to a very strong hero seems to be a theme with Bandidos. At least with the two I have (melee Bandido and twin gun Bandida)

Also, the Judge is particularly good for Bandidos.
 
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MT Dav

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I have a dynamite bandito that is great fun, especially because he tends to drop his dynamite at his feet when he gets surrounded by enemies. The snake skull helmet has saved his hide many a time. I use the guy with the wheelbarrow full of dynamite from malifaux as the figure.
 
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Maurice Oksman
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I took Sinister Laugh originally, which in retrospect, I wouldn't have had I known How annoying it was to have hit 5+. I did save all my information on her, in case I want to play her again, but my choice seemed to be more fueled by uniqueness rather than power. Although this whole conversation made me reexamine what i thought was true about my duel wielding gunslinger (I just posted a thread on that).

Maybe once I finally get that Female Bandido Sculpt, I'll Bring her back into the mix, but I've been using my Bandido Sculpt as a "Mexican Piano Player" and my Saloon Girl scult as my "Bandida", but with my interest in painting soon, it'll just look better keeping things as intended....I guess that was another part of my desire to switch.

I could go deeper on why that original switch happened, but i'll leave it there for now

Cheers!


Adria wrote:
Maurice_Oksman wrote:
Yeah, I have a Level 5 Bandida, which is a Twin Gun expert, but she her 5+ to Hit with range attacks gets old quick, especially in situations that gave her -1 to hit (meaning she was only hitting on 6). I was rolling a crazy number of dice and eating grit like candy from her Abilities/Re-rolls.

Did you not take her straight up the gun path? If so, you should have the 4+ to-hit at level 5. That plus the ability to crit while dual-wielding is pretty good. It's slow getting there, but a slow ramp to a very strong hero seems to be a theme with Bandidos. At least with the two I have (melee Bandido and twin gun Bandida)

Also, the Judge is particularly good for Bandidos.
 
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Angelus Seniores
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i do think with the dynamite that you have to decide beforehand.
the difference with dynamite is that a miss on your hit roll doenst cancel it but instead lets it bounce and explode anyway.
if you selected a good spot to throw at then chances are you will still hit several enemies after the bounce.
 
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Jee Fu
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Angelsenior wrote:
i do think with the dynamite that you have to decide beforehand.
the difference with dynamite is that a miss on your hit roll doenst cancel it but instead lets it bounce and explode anyway.
if you selected a good spot to throw at then chances are you will still hit several enemies after the bounce.

The general rule for FFP games (all of them) is that when it comes to "anytime" abilities and effects, the most recent rolls you can effect are the ones that were most recently rolled. So yes, you can totally spend the Darkstone at any point during the Attack. However, since you roll for damage for each model separately you will need to spend it before you start that dmg rolling process (but after you see where it lands) it order for the buff to apply to ALL Models affected. Otherwise, you could wait until half way through doing dmg, but at that point the buff is only going to effect the ones you haven't rolled for yet (and the most recent one rolled, assuming there were no other rolls made after that result but before the next one - like an Enemy Armor roll)

- Jee
 
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Angelus Seniores
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Inspector Jee wrote:
Angelsenior wrote:
i do think with the dynamite that you have to decide beforehand.
the difference with dynamite is that a miss on your hit roll doenst cancel it but instead lets it bounce and explode anyway.
if you selected a good spot to throw at then chances are you will still hit several enemies after the bounce.

The general rule for FFP games (all of them) is that when it comes to "anytime" abilities and effects, the most recent rolls you can effect are the ones that were most recently rolled. So yes, you can totally spend the Darkstone at any point during the Attack. However, since you roll for damage for each model separately you will need to spend it before you start that dmg rolling process (but after you see where it lands) it order for the buff to apply to ALL Models affected. Otherwise, you could wait until half way through doing dmg, but at that point the buff is only going to effect the ones you haven't rolled for yet (and the most recent one rolled, assuming there were no other rolls made after that result but before the next one - like an Enemy Armor roll)

- Jee

to be honest, in some situations this feels like cheating; ie way too easy to modify an effect after it happened while you would need premonition for it as logically you first prepare then shoot.

i do agree with the idea of FFP to make each effect useful by giving more control over it so you dont waste it needlessly.
but since with dynamite, you are still likely to hit something its really one of those situations where more control is unnecessary.
 
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Kirk Bloom
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Inspector Jee wrote:
Angelsenior wrote:
i do think with the dynamite that you have to decide beforehand.
the difference with dynamite is that a miss on your hit roll doenst cancel it but instead lets it bounce and explode anyway.
if you selected a good spot to throw at then chances are you will still hit several enemies after the bounce.

The general rule for FFP games (all of them) is that when it comes to "anytime" abilities and effects, the most recent rolls you can effect are the ones that were most recently rolled. So yes, you can totally spend the Darkstone at any point during the Attack. However, since you roll for damage for each model separately you will need to spend it before you start that dmg rolling process (but after you see where it lands) it order for the buff to apply to ALL Models affected. Otherwise, you could wait until half way through doing dmg, but at that point the buff is only going to effect the ones you haven't rolled for yet (and the most recent one rolled, assuming there were no other rolls made after that result but before the next one - like an Enemy Armor roll)

- Jee


I thought you only rolled the damage for dynamite once? Was this change in the errata?
 
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Maurice Oksman
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I've always rolled each individual "hit" separately. I imagine if dynamite was just 1 roll, it'd be even more erratic in it's efficacy...but maybe i'm doing it wrong, it wouldn't be the first time i've played a rule wrong for months on end---and it sure wont be the last wow


Bearttousai wrote:


I thought you only rolled the damage for dynamite once? Was this change in the errata?
 
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Adria D
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Maurice_Oksman wrote:
I've always rolled each individual "hit" separately. I imagine if dynamite was just 1 roll, it'd be even more erratic in it's efficacy...but maybe i'm doing it wrong, it wouldn't be the first time i've played a rule wrong for months on end---and it sure wont be the last wow


Bearttousai wrote:


I thought you only rolled the damage for dynamite once? Was this change in the errata?

You're supposed to roll for each model hit.

The very last line on page 25 of the rulebook (in the dynamite section) states "Roll the Damage for each model separately."
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Kirk Bloom
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Oh snap! I've been doing that wrong since the beginning! ...all those 1s...
 
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