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Subject: Average scores in 4 Player???? rss

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Tony Parker
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So my crew has about 30ish plays in on 4 player (long game). Usually, one of use will break a 100 (not by much), two others will be around the 80-90 mark and one guy will suck "bigly", somewhere in the 60 to 75 point area.

Do we all suck or what?

I should mention a fair bit of weed gets passed around during these games whistle

What are good average scores for 4 player games?

And why is it that our scoring pattern, mentioned above, recurs so consistently?

I have a suspicion that there is only so many points available in the 4 player game (350ish) and it's just a matter of grabbing what you can.

I would really like to hear from other four player crews in relation to this...

 
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Northern Polarity
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I normally score in the 130s in my 4 player playgroup of relatively experienced players. The cap seems to be in the 150-160 range, depending on the type of players you play with. For improving your score to that range, what strategies are you all going for? Early exploration board strategies should be able to hit 130 consistently, which is what I believe to be the only viable strategy in 4 player for high scores.

The weed is probably lowering your average scores by a fair amount too
 
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Tony Parker
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Well, there's usually a good mix of strategies. One goes whaling, another goes farming for animals, another becomes the raider/pillager and another for emigration. Those four things are generally the primary strategies and who goes for what is generally dependant on turn order. A four player board gets crowded fast and we grab whatever we can to supplement the primary strategies.

I wonder... with our group a lot of fuckery goes on too, where we will make moves not so much to maximize our points, but rather to screw others out of them...lol

 
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Tony Parker
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Anyway, so it seems that it shouldn't be a problem for all of us to break 120 in a game?

 
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Ryan Feathers
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I don't have an experienced 4 player group, but my usual winning score is in the 140's with several of my opponents usually in the 100's.

I agree with Northern Polarity that I would expect 4 "experts" to be able to all average around 130ish in a 4 player game. I'd expect to see early exploration board followed by filling the homeboard coupled with a few emigrations and houses built. Frankly all the long houses likely run out.

There really shouldn't be a "cap" on scores and it certainly isn't 350ish total points. I mean at some level there is a theoretical maximum, but my main point is there are many sources of points, particularly income, such that all players can earn more. There are relatively few sources of points such that all players are competing for them and you can't possibly get any more.

With all that being said, it does depend on how your group plays. My guess is you all probably heavily compete for emigration in which case I wouldn't be shocked to see scores like you have stated. But to beat such a set up I'd just heavily focus on exploration--try to get something like Iceland and then Baffin/Greenland/Newfoundland if possible and work to fill it up. Great tile generating spaces are pillaging, whaling, raiding, hunting. Fill up your homeboard with that and maybe get a house or two. You should easily surpass 120 or more and defeat anyone heavily focused on emigrating.

If you tell us a bit more about the usual strategies your table employs, how regularly exploration boards are taken, etc we'll better be able to advise where and how you may be able to improve your scores.

 
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Tony Parker
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Ranior wrote:
I don't have an experienced 4 player group, but my usual winning score is in the 140's with several of my opponents usually in the 100's.

I agree with Northern Polarity that I would expect 4 "experts" to be able to all average around 130ish in a 4 player game. I'd expect to see early exploration board followed by filling the homeboard coupled with a few emigrations and houses built. Frankly all the long houses likely run out.

There really shouldn't be a "cap" on scores and it certainly isn't 350ish total points. I mean at some level there is a theoretical maximum, but my main point is there are many sources of points, particularly income, such that all players can earn more. There are relatively few sources of points such that all players are competing for them and you can't possibly get any more.

With all that being said, it does depend on how your group plays. My guess is you all probably heavily compete for emigration in which case I wouldn't be shocked to see scores like you have stated. But to beat such a set up I'd just heavily focus on exploration--try to get something like Iceland and then Baffin/Greenland/Newfoundland if possible and work to fill it up. Great tile generating spaces are pillaging, whaling, raiding, hunting. Fill up your homeboard with that and maybe get a house or two. You should easily surpass 120 or more and defeat anyone heavily focused on emigrating.

If you tell us a bit more about the usual strategies your table employs, how regularly exploration boards are taken, etc we'll better be able to advise where and how you may be able to improve your scores.



Well... we do compete for emigration. We all usually have at least two or three.

The islands go fast. Iceland is always gone by turn two for sure. Faroe is almost always left at the end of the game.

Everybody always has a couple houses.

Two of us don't bother filling the homeboard entirely, just cover the negative points and get a couple bonus goods unlocked... and use the islands for income.

The other two usually try to fill the homeboards up, which costs one of them on filling up his island and keeps the other from filling his houses...

I should mention there is heavy competition for the 2 rock + 2 stone build a ship and a house spot. I think we sometimes wait too long for that spot when the resources could be used elsewhere.
 
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Funny thing... I'm pretty consistent at 90 to 105 points. So I tried a solo game to see if I could do better on my own.

Scored 95 points....lol
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Jefferson Krogh
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GQuebed wrote:


Funny thing... I'm pretty consistent at 90 to 105 points. So I tried a solo game to see if I could do better on my own.

Scored 95 points....lol


Sounds like me!

Anyway, my impression had been that scores would be lower at higher player accounts. Perhaps that's not true...
 
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Tony Parker
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Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
GQuebed wrote:


Funny thing... I'm pretty consistent at 90 to 105 points. So I tried a solo game to see if I could do better on my own.

Scored 95 points....lol


Sounds like me!

Anyway, my impression had been that scores would be lower at higher player accounts. Perhaps that's not true...


That's what I thought. Hoped...

But now I know I just suck. LOL

But that will change.
 
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Ryan Feathers
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Kobold Curry Chef wrote:


Sounds like me!

Anyway, my impression had been that scores would be lower at higher player accounts. Perhaps that's not true...


Scores are lower at higher player counts.

In solo, myself and some of the other "experts" consistently score over 150. My average is in the 160's.

Take that to two player, and scores don't drop all that much actually--there still are quite a few exploration boards for all the players and the ability to take actions in back to back rounds can be big. (The solo limitation of self blocking means you can only ever visit certain spots 3 times usually). So being able to get a great pillaging boat set up and potentially taking it 5 or more times means I don't notice scores decreasing all that much at 2 players. 140-150 is pretty reasonable.

Three players certainly sees scores drop a bit and then 4 does too. I find 3 and 4 roughly the same with 130's usually being a good winning score with all players able to get into that 110-140 range if they're all experienced.

I personally suspect that the release of more exploration boards will lower this gap and raise 3-4 players scores into the 140's and beyond, but perhaps not. At those player counts you do have to eventually start using action spaces that aren't quite as exciting/good so scores probably will be at least a bit lower.


Ultimately though if you're scoring under 100 in solo games you have plenty you can learn about the game, and that should help see your scores rise in multiplayer as well. Loosely from what GQuebed wrote I would expect the scores to be higher though. Maybe a few too many emigrations (as if everyone has 2-3, that makes 8-12 total emigrations in the game which seems a little high to me). The only other standouts to me are the fact you don't tend to take Faroe which is the right play, but in turn 4 it flips to Baffin and somebody should be snatching that up--there are a lot of points to gain from filling in Baffin along with another exploration board. Else the only other main thing I can see is that not everyone in the 4 player game is filling in their homeboard entirely which seems a big mistake to me. You're going to get a better points return from investing time in filling up your homeboard than just about anything else in the game. (The main exception is exploration boards which tend to have even better returns which is why they should be fought over).

Playing some solo games and getting better at that stuff should help you figure these things out though. Basically the early to mid game should be almost entirely about filling in exploration boards and your homeboard if that's one of your goals. Then the late game (Rounds 5-7) can be focused a bit more on covering up negatives, emigration, getting some houses, etc. You should be able to figure out how to score 120+ in solo pretty quickly and that will help lead to you understanding how to do better in multiplayer as well.

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Tony Parker
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Ranior wrote:
Kobold Curry Chef wrote:


Sounds like me!

Anyway, my impression had been that scores would be lower at higher player accounts. Perhaps that's not true...


Scores are lower at higher player counts.

In solo, myself and some of the other "experts" consistently score over 150. My average is in the 160's.

Take that to two player, and scores don't drop all that much actually--there still are quite a few exploration boards for all the players and the ability to take actions in back to back rounds can be big. (The solo limitation of self blocking means you can only ever visit certain spots 3 times usually). So being able to get a great pillaging boat set up and potentially taking it 5 or more times means I don't notice scores decreasing all that much at 2 players. 140-150 is pretty reasonable.

Three players certainly sees scores drop a bit and then 4 does too. I find 3 and 4 roughly the same with 130's usually being a good winning score with all players able to get into that 110-140 range if they're all experienced.

I personally suspect that the release of more exploration boards will lower this gap and raise 3-4 players scores into the 140's and beyond, but perhaps not. At those player counts you do have to eventually start using action spaces that aren't quite as exciting/good so scores probably will be at least a bit lower.


Ultimately though if you're scoring under 100 in solo games you have plenty you can learn about the game, and that should help see your scores rise in multiplayer as well. Loosely from what GQuebed wrote I would expect the scores to be higher though. Maybe a few too many emigrations (as if everyone has 2-3, that makes 8-12 total emigrations in the game which seems a little high to me). The only other standouts to me are the fact you don't tend to take Faroe which is the right play, but in turn 4 it flips to Baffin and somebody should be snatching that up--there are a lot of points to gain from filling in Baffin along with another exploration board. Else the only other main thing I can see is that not everyone in the 4 player game is filling in their homeboard entirely which seems a big mistake to me. You're going to get a better points return from investing time in filling up your homeboard than just about anything else in the game. (The main exception is exploration boards which tend to have even better returns which is why they should be fought over).

Playing some solo games and getting better at that stuff should help you figure these things out though. Basically the early to mid game should be almost entirely about filling in exploration boards and your homeboard if that's one of your goals. Then the late game (Rounds 5-7) can be focused a bit more on covering up negatives, emigration, getting some houses, etc. You should be able to figure out how to score 120+ in solo pretty quickly and that will help lead to you understanding how to do better in multiplayer as well.



Filling the homebaord... seems like filling those blank spaces are a waste of resources, no? Like I said, two of us generally don't bother with that. We just unlock a couple bonuses and cover the negatives. The other two tend to neglect islands and concentrate on the homeboards. And yet it really is a toss up at the end as to who wins.

So I guess both pairs need to get both parts of the game going better, but... it just seems like there just isn't enough time to get it all done.

I did break 120 once, with Iceland full, homeboard full, one long house full and a second building partially full. But I thought that came at the expense of the other three guys, who were all sub 80.

Well... got some practice to do in solo mode...lol

 
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GQuebed wrote:

Filling the homebaord... seems like filling those blank spaces are a waste of resources, no? Like I said, two of us generally don't bother with that. We just unlock a couple bonuses and cover the negatives. The other two tend to neglect islands and concentrate on the homeboards. And yet it really is a toss up at the end as to who wins.

So I guess both pairs need to get both parts of the game going better, but... it just seems like there just isn't enough time to get it all done.

I did break 120 once, with Iceland full, homeboard full, one long house full and a second building partially full. But I thought that came at the expense of the other three guys, who were all sub 80.

Well... got some practice to do in solo mode...lol


Filling in all the blank spaces earns you income which is points. I'd say a fairly general progression if you fill up the entire homeboard is income of 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 12, 18 which totals 56 silver. So roughly 50-60 points from filing in the homeboard. Not to mention you're now getting that bonus wood, ore, stone, rune stone, and mead which will help you in filling in your home board and accomplishing other tasks.

That 120 game does sound good, but there isn't a great reason why everyone can't fill up an exploration board, home board, and a house. If everyone does that everyone should be able to get into the 120+ range. AS I just said the homeboard provides almost 50ish points in silver. An exploration board can provide 40ish points between the board and silver it earns. That's already 90ish total points. Now just fill in a house or two, maybe get an emigration, and whatever boats and occupations you have and you're easily over that 120 point mark.

From everything you've said thus far my best guesses for areas to improve are simply to really focus on unlocking income and bonus goods. Aggressively use silver and all your actions and tiles to unlock more bonuses and income every round. Do not go for emigrations for the first four rounds in general. Don't build houses during that time usually either. You want to be spedning most of your actions acquiring tiles and getting them on your board to earn income and bonuses.

Playing more solo should help a lot though. You'll start to figure things out and once you start learning some of the lessones of this game you should start to approach 150's in your solo games which in turn should lead you to understanding how to consistently eclipse 120ish in 4 player.
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Tony Parker
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Ranior wrote:
GQuebed wrote:

Filling the homebaord... seems like filling those blank spaces are a waste of resources, no? Like I said, two of us generally don't bother with that. We just unlock a couple bonuses and cover the negatives. The other two tend to neglect islands and concentrate on the homeboards. And yet it really is a toss up at the end as to who wins.

So I guess both pairs need to get both parts of the game going better, but... it just seems like there just isn't enough time to get it all done.

I did break 120 once, with Iceland full, homeboard full, one long house full and a second building partially full. But I thought that came at the expense of the other three guys, who were all sub 80.

Well... got some practice to do in solo mode...lol


Filling in all the blank spaces earns you income which is points. I'd say a fairly general progression if you fill up the entire homeboard is income of 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 12, 18 which totals 56 silver. So roughly 50-60 points from filing in the homeboard. Not to mention you're now getting that bonus wood, ore, stone, rune stone, and mead which will help you in filling in your home board and accomplishing other tasks.

That 120 game does sound good, but there isn't a great reason why everyone can't fill up an exploration board, home board, and a house. If everyone does that everyone should be able to get into the 120+ range. AS I just said the homeboard provides almost 50ish points in silver. An exploration board can provide 40ish points between the board and silver it earns. That's already 90ish total points. Now just fill in a house or two, maybe get an emigration, and whatever boats and occupations you have and you're easily over that 120 point mark.

From everything you've said thus far my best guesses for areas to improve are simply to really focus on unlocking income and bonus goods. Aggressively use silver and all your actions and tiles to unlock more bonuses and income every round. Do not go for emigrations for the first four rounds in general. Don't build houses during that time usually either. You want to be spedning most of your actions acquiring tiles and getting them on your board to earn income and bonuses.

Playing more solo should help a lot though. You'll start to figure things out and once you start learning some of the lessones of this game you should start to approach 150's in your solo games which in turn should lead you to understanding how to consistently eclipse 120ish in 4 player.



I dunno....

Only one poster in this thread says that he scores 120 regularly in his four player group of experienced players and also says the cap seems to be 150ish. But he didn't say what other players are scoring...

In another thread, I read that 150 points was achieved with 3 islands mostly full, a full main board and 3 completed long houses. This would never happen in our group... or rather no one person is going to get 3 islands and 3 long houses.

If that's what is required to get into the 130's + or whatever then.... I dunno...

I'd like to see pics of 4 player game boards. I just don't see that there is enough to go around for all four players to be in that 120 to 140 range...

Prove me wrong?



 
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GQuebed wrote:
Ranior wrote:
GQuebed wrote:

Filling the homebaord... seems like filling those blank spaces are a waste of resources, no? Like I said, two of us generally don't bother with that. We just unlock a couple bonuses and cover the negatives. The other two tend to neglect islands and concentrate on the homeboards. And yet it really is a toss up at the end as to who wins.

So I guess both pairs need to get both parts of the game going better, but... it just seems like there just isn't enough time to get it all done.

I did break 120 once, with Iceland full, homeboard full, one long house full and a second building partially full. But I thought that came at the expense of the other three guys, who were all sub 80.

Well... got some practice to do in solo mode...lol


Filling in all the blank spaces earns you income which is points. I'd say a fairly general progression if you fill up the entire homeboard is income of 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 12, 18 which totals 56 silver. So roughly 50-60 points from filing in the homeboard. Not to mention you're now getting that bonus wood, ore, stone, rune stone, and mead which will help you in filling in your home board and accomplishing other tasks.

That 120 game does sound good, but there isn't a great reason why everyone can't fill up an exploration board, home board, and a house. If everyone does that everyone should be able to get into the 120+ range. AS I just said the homeboard provides almost 50ish points in silver. An exploration board can provide 40ish points between the board and silver it earns. That's already 90ish total points. Now just fill in a house or two, maybe get an emigration, and whatever boats and occupations you have and you're easily over that 120 point mark.

From everything you've said thus far my best guesses for areas to improve are simply to really focus on unlocking income and bonus goods. Aggressively use silver and all your actions and tiles to unlock more bonuses and income every round. Do not go for emigrations for the first four rounds in general. Don't build houses during that time usually either. You want to be spedning most of your actions acquiring tiles and getting them on your board to earn income and bonuses.

Playing more solo should help a lot though. You'll start to figure things out and once you start learning some of the lessones of this game you should start to approach 150's in your solo games which in turn should lead you to understanding how to consistently eclipse 120ish in 4 player.



I dunno....

Only one poster in this thread says that he scores 120 regularly in his four player group of experienced players and also says the cap seems to be 150ish. But he didn't say what other players are scoring...

In another thread, I read that 150 points was achieved with 3 islands mostly full, a full main board and 3 completed long houses. This would never happen in our group... or rather no one person is going to get 3 islands and 3 long houses.

If that's what is required to get into the 130's + or whatever then.... I dunno...

It's not. Are you reading what Ranior is writing?

Quote:
I'd like to see pics of 4 player game boards. I just don't see that there is enough to go around for all four players to be in that 120 to 140 range...

Prove me wrong?

It's starting to sound like you're not here for great insight from helpful people like Ranior. It sounds like you just want your preconceived notions confirmed. Nobody owes you proof. Take good players at their word, or don't start threads asking for that kind of feedback. Sheesh.
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grant5 wrote:
GQuebed wrote:
Ranior wrote:
GQuebed wrote:

Filling the homebaord... seems like filling those blank spaces are a waste of resources, no? Like I said, two of us generally don't bother with that. We just unlock a couple bonuses and cover the negatives. The other two tend to neglect islands and concentrate on the homeboards. And yet it really is a toss up at the end as to who wins.

So I guess both pairs need to get both parts of the game going better, but... it just seems like there just isn't enough time to get it all done.

I did break 120 once, with Iceland full, homeboard full, one long house full and a second building partially full. But I thought that came at the expense of the other three guys, who were all sub 80.

Well... got some practice to do in solo mode...lol


Filling in all the blank spaces earns you income which is points. I'd say a fairly general progression if you fill up the entire homeboard is income of 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 12, 18 which totals 56 silver. So roughly 50-60 points from filing in the homeboard. Not to mention you're now getting that bonus wood, ore, stone, rune stone, and mead which will help you in filling in your home board and accomplishing other tasks.

That 120 game does sound good, but there isn't a great reason why everyone can't fill up an exploration board, home board, and a house. If everyone does that everyone should be able to get into the 120+ range. AS I just said the homeboard provides almost 50ish points in silver. An exploration board can provide 40ish points between the board and silver it earns. That's already 90ish total points. Now just fill in a house or two, maybe get an emigration, and whatever boats and occupations you have and you're easily over that 120 point mark.

From everything you've said thus far my best guesses for areas to improve are simply to really focus on unlocking income and bonus goods. Aggressively use silver and all your actions and tiles to unlock more bonuses and income every round. Do not go for emigrations for the first four rounds in general. Don't build houses during that time usually either. You want to be spedning most of your actions acquiring tiles and getting them on your board to earn income and bonuses.

Playing more solo should help a lot though. You'll start to figure things out and once you start learning some of the lessones of this game you should start to approach 150's in your solo games which in turn should lead you to understanding how to consistently eclipse 120ish in 4 player.



I dunno....

Only one poster in this thread says that he scores 120 regularly in his four player group of experienced players and also says the cap seems to be 150ish. But he didn't say what other players are scoring...

In another thread, I read that 150 points was achieved with 3 islands mostly full, a full main board and 3 completed long houses. This would never happen in our group... or rather no one person is going to get 3 islands and 3 long houses.

If that's what is required to get into the 130's + or whatever then.... I dunno...

It's not. Are you reading what Ranior is writing?

Quote:
I'd like to see pics of 4 player game boards. I just don't see that there is enough to go around for all four players to be in that 120 to 140 range...

Prove me wrong?

It's starting to sound like you're not here for great insight from helpful people like Ranior. It sounds like you just want your preconceived notions confirmed. Nobody owes you proof. Take good players at their word, or don't start threads asking for that kind of feedback. Sheesh.


Ill say it again... the advice that has been offered is nice but not entirely rellevant, because it is not coming from people who play in a group of 4 experienced players. So forgive my doubt but it is valid. Also, i did not make any demands for proof. I asked for it, which i believe is far different from "expecting" it.

To be fair though, it is a bit of a challenge... i have made an assertion and have asked/challenged the community to prove it wrong. And i did so politely.

So far nobody has stepped up to prove that assertion wrong...

So i will put it a different way. I would like to see pictures of the boards of a completed 4 player game that depicts scores over 110ish points each. Please.
 
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Or how about this... a lot of solo players are claiming scores in the 130+ range. Maybe an expert solo player could set up a four player long game and play each player himself, making the absolute best move available for each "player"?

An experiment that might take say... a day or two to complete...given that each move is considered carefully for much longer than people would be allowed in a normal gaming environment?
 
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GQuebed wrote:
Or how about this... a lot of solo players are claiming scores in the 130+ range. Maybe an expert solo player could set up a four player long game and play each player himself, making the absolute best move available for each "player"?

An experiment that might take say... a day or two to complete...given that each move is considered carefully for much longer than people would be allowed in a normal gaming environment?


Many of us probably continue to find problems with your attitude. You're asking someone to spend a lot of hours just to provide you with proof that it can be done. We're being nice enough to spend some time detailing how we think you can play better, but I'm not really into spending hours of my time trying to back it up.

Additionally it still doesn't make me feel like you're really doing your part in trying given you're using the phrase "claiming scores in the 130+ range". I literally have several solo session reports where I've taken pictures of my board after every round, explain all my moves, and discuss my strategic thinking behind those moves. The scores in those solo sessions reports tend to be in the 150-170ish range.

Ultimately you're correct that no one really knows what 4 experienced/expert players will score in this game because nobody seems to have such a group or experience. The people most capable of speaking on this issue are likely the "expert" solo players that regularly eclipse 150 points. Some of them have taken the time to speak up in this thread and offer their thoughts. That is probably the best you're going to get for now.

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Ranior wrote:
GQuebed wrote:
Or how about this... a lot of solo players are claiming scores in the 130+ range. Maybe an expert solo player could set up a four player long game and play each player himself, making the absolute best move available for each "player"?

An experiment that might take say... a day or two to complete...given that each move is considered carefully for much longer than people would be allowed in a normal gaming environment?


Many of us probably continue to find problems with your attitude. You're asking someone to spend a lot of hours just to provide you with proof that it can be done. We're being nice enough to spend some time detailing how we think you can play better, but I'm not really into spending hours of my time trying to back it up.

Additionally it still doesn't make me feel like you're really doing your part in trying given you're using the phrase "claiming scores in the 130+ range". I literally have several solo session reports where I've taken pictures of my board after every round, explain all my moves, and discuss my strategic thinking behind those moves. The scores in those solo sessions reports tend to be in the 150-170ish range.

Ultimately you're correct that no one really knows what 4 experienced/expert players will score in this game because nobody seems to have such a group or experience. The people most capable of speaking on this issue are likely the "expert" solo players that regularly eclipse 150 points. Some of them have taken the time to speak up in this thread and offer their thoughts. That is probably the best you're going to get for now.



Yes I am asking. Not demanding.
Why?
I would do it myself, but because I, who has scored 115ish points once in a 4 player game and who averages about 90 pts in a 4 player game, am not a good candidate for the experiment. So I have thrown it out there just in case somebody else is curious enough to try and has enough time to bother.


And again, I have merely asked, politely. There is no expectation here and how that might have been implied is beyond me.

As for my phrase, "claiming scores...", yes it does imply doubt, and I apologize for that because I don't doubt that there are people who are scoring 130+ in solo games. Better said, my doubt is that such is unlikely on a consistent basis in a group of 4 experienced players and I have stated why.

I have also thanked those who have offered advice on how to play better. But that was not my question in the OP. I would like to know what other groups of four players are scoring on average, so I can gauge my groups proficiency at the game.

So altogether, I am very unsure as to how/why my attitude is a problem.

Anyway, I suspect that over time there may be a person who happens by this thread who can shed some light on my question. Or even answer it outright. Maybe that person knows of competitions for this game or has their own group, who knows.

In the meantime, I will suggest that criticisms of my attitude are evidently unfair for the reasons stated above... and hope that an expert player might bother to try my experiment, while I try to improve well enough to conduct the experiment myself. So... practice, I must.
 
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Fair enough. Just rubbed me the wrong way I guess with the phrasing claiming. Felt like you were claiming we were lying about scoring that high in solo and therefore casting doubt on the advice we've thus far provided.

Perhaps some one will take you up on your experiment some day. Alternatively if you take photos of your player boards at your table, I think some of us may be willing to point out ways you could improve and any mistakes we may have seen.

Finally, one other thing I have considered is trying to find three other players to play a full game via forum. Issue is this is a fairly tough game to play via forum and will involve all of us sharing pictures of our player boards after every round probably in order to make it work. Tracking resources also will be a bit of a pain.

Until then, we'll all just have to wonder about quite what the cap is. I still think it shouldn't be too hard for four players to all exceed 120. (Although I should still make it clear that 1 player in a 4 player game likely isn't getting an early exploration board unless they want Faroe, and that may limit their scoring potential into the 100-110 range. I'm therefore very excited for the mini expansion that introduces two new exploration boards to the game, as I think this will help improve the experience quite a lot for everyone. Although it may start to push scores into the 130ish range as there wil be greater opportunities for more points.
 
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Ranior wrote:
Fair enough. Just rubbed me the wrong way I guess with the phrasing claiming. Felt like you were claiming we were lying about scoring that high in solo and therefore casting doubt on the advice we've thus far provided.

Perhaps some one will take you up on your experiment some day. Alternatively if you take photos of your player boards at your table, I think some of us may be willing to point out ways you could improve and any mistakes we may have seen.

Finally, one other thing I have considered is trying to find three other players to play a full game via forum. Issue is this is a fairly tough game to play via forum and will involve all of us sharing pictures of our player boards after every round probably in order to make it work. Tracking resources also will be a bit of a pain.

Until then, we'll all just have to wonder about quite what the cap is. I still think it shouldn't be too hard for four players to all exceed 120. (Although I should still make it clear that 1 player in a 4 player game likely isn't getting an early exploration board unless they want Faroe, and that may limit their scoring potential into the 100-110 range. I'm therefore very excited for the mini expansion that introduces two new exploration boards to the game, as I think this will help improve the experience quite a lot for everyone. Although it may start to push scores into the 130ish range as there wil be greater opportunities for more points.


My group is really looking forward to the expansion as well to solve the island problem. We're also hoping for expansion to 5 player someday, if possible, which is the usual size of our group. Right now FFO only hits the table when one of us is absent. That happens frequently through the summer, rarely in the winter... so FFO will be getting a bit of rest over the next few months, sadly.

Anyway, a forum round would be very interesting to watch. I hope you can work that out, as I would certainly follow along.
 
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Well I got bored over some recent evenings and finally took up the challenge of playing 4 boards myself. There's some obvious issues with that, but for what it is worth I got an average of 127.5 for the four players. And that was with just counting ever played occupation as 2 points, without any effect--I didn't have the time to keep track of each players occupation and play into maximizing it. I suspect you can squeeze a few more points out of all of those and be in the 130's as an average.

Of course the issue is that I also can't really surprise myself. So if the blue player was wanting to maybe take 2 wood as an action so they could then go to the build houses/boat space, I could easily "tell" if the yellow player would beat them to that. So even though I tried as best as possible to not have all the players cooperating for high scores but to really have each one competing his best for his own score, I'm sure there were some issues.

Still, it would seem scoring in the 110-140 range as quoted above, with the whole table averaging around the 120's is pretty accurate advice.

I do have pictures of all the board, and on top of that pictures of the whole table for each round. So anyone who wants to really dig in an analyze the whole game will be able to, including seeing every action taken for each round (although you won't be able to tell the order).

I'm writing some of it up along with a bit of my own analysis into a session report, so it will take several days for me to finish and get approved. I'll be sure to link it here once it is.
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That'll be an interesting session report!
 
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The session report has been posted: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1883930/ranior-plays-4-boar...

Feel free to discuss things there or here, I'll be sure to respond.

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Where were the spaces positioned that allowed players to duplicate an action in 2 of the four columns?

And, thanks for doing that and posting it. As you mentioned, the issues of potential (subconscious)cooperation and forehand knowledge skewing the outcome(s)is likely.

You are good player, playing yourself. Four independent players would have to factor in the risk of what their opponents should and/or could do, to determine their next best move.

In that context it often leads to not getting the 'ideal' meeple placement on any given action, often only the 'safest.'Meaning you take your second choice in the short run, to ensure some long term aim will be reached.

Similarly even 'experienced' players vary in their 'vikingness,' bad moves lead to adverse consequences not only for the player making them, but often for one or more opponents who never saw it coming, or alternatively inadvertently boosting the prospects of an opponent. You may have suffered those dynamics anyway, but you can never truly know.

That aside, without a doubt you have demonstrated it is mathematically possible for four players to achieve scores at (or near) the ones you reached, therefore it could happen, and that is extraordinary feat in itself.

 
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Ryan Feathers
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Dr What wrote:
Where were the spaces positioned that allowed players to duplicate an action in 2 of the four columns?


1st and 3rd column.

Quote:


And, thanks for doing that and posting it. As you mentioned, the issues of potential (subconscious)cooperation and forehand knowledge skewing the outcome(s)is likely.

You are good player, playing yourself. Four independent players would have to factor in the risk of what their opponents should and/or could do, to determine their next best move.

In that context it often leads to not getting the 'ideal' meeple placement on any given action, often only the 'safest.'Meaning you take your second choice in the short run, to ensure some long term aim will be reached.

Similarly even 'experienced' players vary in their 'vikingness,' bad moves lead to adverse consequences not only for the player making them, but often for one or more opponents who never saw it coming, or alternatively inadvertently boosting the prospects of an opponent. You may have suffered those dynamics anyway, but you can never truly know.

That aside, without a doubt you have demonstrated it is mathematically possible for four players to achieve scores at (or near) the ones you reached, therefore it could happen, and that is extraordinary feat in itself.



Agreed with all of this--to truly know what 4 expert players would score, we'd need a bunch of great players to sit down and actually play. For all the elements described above, playing 4 boards by myself has limitations.


 
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