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Subject: Story mode and current level rss

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Keith Mudgett
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Hello,

Just received my copy of the game and played the tutorial in story mode. Couple questions and was not sure how this goes. Sorry if this has been answered already but there are so many posts that I probably missed the answers to this.

1) If I am still in the L1 board and transmute 3 items to L2, do I have to wait until I get to the L2 board to use the item?

2) Similar issue is that by the end I had several L3 items, but there is only a L2 board max. Does this mean that I cannot use these items until much later and that they just are extra baggage between quests?

3) In story mode, between quests, is it 6 items max (including equipped gear) or 6 items max in your backpack?

4) What would the current level of the heroes be if I only purchased L1 skills and was on a L2 board? Could I use L2 weapons, etc? What if I had L2 skills on a L1 board?

Thanks!
 
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John Bruns
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The questt level is the greater of either the highest level that a character has or the highest area on the board visited. So:

1) Yes unless a character is already level 2.

2) Yes, unless a character is level 3.

3) 6 including equipped.

4) Yes, since you are on a Level 2 board, the quest level is 2.
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Julien Duminil
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tal342 wrote:
The questt level is the greater of either the highest level that a character has or the highest area on the board visited.

In Story Mode, the highest level that a character has, referred to as Hero's Level, is only used to determine at which Level the Quest starts. Then you follow normal rules for Quest"s Current Level until the end of the current quest.
Rulebook p38 wrote:
While each Quest starts at the Level of the highest Skill acquired by a Hero, after it starts you follow the normal rules for determining the Current Level.


So here are the updated answers:

1) Still Yes

2) Yes too (not depending on Hero Level at the end of the Quest)
edit: if the board is L2 max, but your Hero is L3 at the Quest setup, then you add a L3 token next to the L2 token and activate it from start. Thus in this case you can use your L3 gear.

3) You can safely unequip your gear at the town Thus it's 6 all included.

4) "if I only purchased L1 skills and was on a L2 board" => the current quest's level is 2 (and the Hero's Level is still 1, but it does't have any impact while in the quest), so you can use L2 weapons.

4 bis) "if I had L2 skills on a L1 board" => if you started the Quest having a L2 skill, the quest starts with the Level 2 token activated, so you can use L2 weapons; if you acquired your first L2 skill while on the tile L1, you have to activate the Quest Level 2 by entering the tile L2 before using Weapons and Skills Level 2.
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Keith Mudgett
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Thanks alot for the clarification! For some reason, I was having a hard time fully understanding this.

 
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Tadej Vengust
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DummySphere wrote:
tal342 wrote:
The questt level is the greater of either the highest level that a character has or the highest area on the board visited.

In Story Mode, the highest level that a character has, referred to as Hero's Level, is only used to determine at which Level the Quest starts. Then you follow normal rules for Quest"s Current Level until the end of the current quest.
Rulebook p38 wrote:
While each Quest starts at the Level of the highest Skill acquired by a Hero, after it starts you follow the normal rules for determining the Current Level.


So here are the updated answers:

1) Still Yes

2) Yes too (not depending on Hero Level at the end of the Quest)

3) You can safely unequip your gear at the town Thus it's 6 all included.

4) "if I only purchased L1 skills and was on a L2 board" => the current quest's level is 2 (and the Hero's Level is still 1, but it does't have any impact while in the quest), so you can use L2 weapons.

4 bis) "if I had L2 skills on a L1 board" => if you started the Quest having a L2 skill, the quest starts with the Level 2 token activated, so you can use L2 weapons; if you acquired your first L2 skill while on the tile L1, you have to activate the Quest Level 2 by entering the tile L2 before using Weapons and Skills Level 2.


And sell one (1!) of them for XPs (not microXP), level of card/2 rounded up. So for 1 level 5 you can get 3XPs
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Keith Mudgett
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I missed that one. I traded them in for micro-xp. makes L1 and L3 items better values than L2 and L4 due to the rounding.
 
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David Griffin
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DummySphere wrote:
tal342 wrote:
The questt level is the greater of either the highest level that a character has or the highest area on the board visited.

In Story Mode, the highest level that a character has, referred to as Hero's Level, is only used to determine at which Level the Quest starts. Then you follow normal rules for Quest"s Current Level until the end of the current quest.
Rulebook p38 wrote:
While each Quest starts at the Level of the highest Skill acquired by a Hero, after it starts you follow the normal rules for determining the Current Level.


So here are the updated answers:

1) Still Yes

2) Yes too (not depending on Hero Level at the end of the Quest)

3) You can safely unequip your gear at the town Thus it's 6 all included.

4) "if I only purchased L1 skills and was on a L2 board" => the current quest's level is 2 (and the Hero's Level is still 1, but it does't have any impact while in the quest), so you can use L2 weapons.

4 bis) "if I had L2 skills on a L1 board" => if you started the Quest having a L2 skill, the quest starts with the Level 2 token activated, so you can use L2 weapons; if you acquired your first L2 skill while on the tile L1, you have to activate the Quest Level 2 by entering the tile L2 before using Weapons and Skills Level 2.


The reason 2 lists a dependency on hero level is that if you played say the introductory level with a level 3 character, the last tile is both considered to be level 2 and level 3 (or so I remember) in order to allow you to "start" at the level of the highest level hero. Thus where normally you still could not use level 3 weapons/equipment on the 2nd tile (normally level 2) because of the story mode starting at the hero's level, the level 1 token on tile 1 is black, the level 2 token on board 2 is black and the level 3 tokens also on board 2 is lit up and the adventure starts (and ends) on level 3.

I'm houseruling my own items to 7 for now and it may climb. This is due to the need to include 2-3 garbage items that work on the first tile until the level of your real kept items comes into play. In effect, you don't get to keep 6 items, you can keep 6-X where X is from 2-3 usually which isn't enough to benefit from what you get during the adventure. 7 still has hard choices. I may up it to 8.
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Julien Duminil
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carbon_dragon wrote:
The reason 2 lists a dependency on hero level is that if you played say the introductory level with a level 3 character, the last tile is both considered to be level 2 and level 3 (or so I remember) in order to allow you to "start" at the level of the highest level hero. Thus where normally you still could not use level 3 weapons/equipment on the 2nd tile (normally level 2) because of the story mode starting at the hero's level, the level 1 token on tile 1 is black, the level 2 token on board 2 is black and the level 3 tokens also on board 2 is lit up and the adventure starts (and ends) on level 3.

Exact, I've updated my answer.

carbon_dragon wrote:
I'm houseruling my own items to 7 for now and it may climb. This is due to the need to include 2-3 garbage items that work on the first tile until the level of your real kept items comes into play. In effect, you don't get to keep 6 items, you can keep 6-X where X is from 2-3 usually which isn't enough to benefit from what you get during the adventure. 7 still has hard choices. I may up it to 8.

Isn't where there are interesting choices, when you have more interesting stuff than what you can keep?! e.g. If I'm Hero Level 1, do I keep Level 1, 2 or 3 stuff... or a mix. It will become easy soon enough
(Of course you can house rule the way you want )
 
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David Griffin
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DummySphere wrote:
...
Isn't where there are interesting choices, when you have more interesting stuff than what you can keep?! e.g. If I'm Hero Level 1, do I keep Level 1, 2 or 3 stuff... or a mix. It will become easy soon enough
(Of course you can house rule the way you want )


You don't need all levels. But suppose you are 1st level. You just did the introduction and now you have level 2 stuff and a couple of level 3's. You actually only have say 12-16 things you really want to save with 4 characters. But you also need level 1 weapons and armor for all characters, otherwise they won't be able to defend themselves at all. So you need 4 pieces of armor and 4-8 weapons. So that is 20-28 items with a rated maximum of 24. That is the problem.

Yes you can throw stuff away, but do you really want to discard an artifact (that you can't use till level 4) or do you want to not have a weapon for 3 levels? Hard choices are OK, but the choice is only hard because of the artificial mechanism that forces you to keep inferior weapons and armor to adjust to the rule which the normal mode doesn't even have.

That level 1 stuff just shouldn't count against your limit. It really just reflects that you're not using your real gear as efficiently as you will? Not sure what it represents in game actually.
 
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Julien Duminil
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carbon_dragon wrote:
Hard choices are OK, but the choice is only hard because of the artificial mechanism that forces you to keep inferior weapons and armor to adjust to the rule which the normal mode doesn't even have.

If this rule was not there, they probably would have lowered the number of treasures you can keep between quest (to 3, maybe 2 if they wanted to hardening it a little).

There is also a variant that has interesting ideas to remove this rule:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1851390/three-simple-change...
(Not sure it is yet mature enough to be well balanced.)
 
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David Griffin
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DummySphere wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:
Hard choices are OK, but the choice is only hard because of the artificial mechanism that forces you to keep inferior weapons and armor to adjust to the rule which the normal mode doesn't even have.

If this rule was not there, they probably would have lowered the number of treasures you can keep between quest (to 3, maybe 2 if they wanted to hardening it a little).

There is also a variant that has interesting ideas to remove this rule:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1851390/three-simple-change...
(Not sure it is yet mature enough to be well balanced.)


My goal in houseruling would be that I can keep 1 set of weapons and armor, acquired artifacts (or at least some of them), maybe a healing potion plus whatever I need to keep myself going till I can use the real cards. Any set of rules that makes that happen are fine. Having to discard good cards because I have to start at lower levels is more annoying than fun.

Maybe I'll change my mind after playing more games. Not sure.
 
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CK Lai
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DummySphere wrote:
4 bis) "if I had L2 skills on a L1 board" => if you started the Quest having a L2 skill, the quest starts with the Level 2 token activated, so you can use L2 weapons; if you acquired your first L2 skill while on the tile L1, you have to activate the Quest Level 2 by entering the tile L2 before using Weapons and Skills Level 2.

Wait. Let me check that again.

Say I’m playing quest 7 which has 5 levels. I have 2 heroes at level 4, and one hero at level 3. I also have various level 1-4 equipment, including one artefact.

As I understand it, the dungeon level 4 token is active and all others are placed face down

When I start the quest, can I

a) use all my equipment up to level 4, or am I constrained by the tile level? (ie. I start at tile 1, level 1 so I can only use level 1 equipment). That section on Inventory on pg.38 could be interpreted a couple of ways. Especially coupled with the last point in the “get ready” section on page 39.

b) ditto my skills. Can I use all my skills (up to level 4) right from the start or am I constrained again by the tile level, like the weapons and equipment?

(Apologies for the thread necromancy.)
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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a) You can use up to Level 4 equipment, including the Artifact.

b) Skills are usable up to level 4.

The things that rely on the tile you are on are pretty much only the Treasure spawns and location of enemy spawns for event cards.
 
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David Griffin
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Chinkster wrote:
DummySphere wrote:
4 bis) "if I had L2 skills on a L1 board" => if you started the Quest having a L2 skill, the quest starts with the Level 2 token activated, so you can use L2 weapons; if you acquired your first L2 skill while on the tile L1, you have to activate the Quest Level 2 by entering the tile L2 before using Weapons and Skills Level 2.

Wait. Let me check that again.

Say I’m playing quest 7 which has 5 levels. I have 2 heroes at level 4, and one hero at level 3. I also have various level 1-4 equipment, including one artefact.

As I understand it, the dungeon level 4 token is active and all others are placed face down

When I start the quest, can I

a) use all my equipment up to level 4, or am I constrained by the tile level? (ie. I start at tile 1, level 1 so I can only use level 1 equipment). That section on Inventory on pg.38 could be interpreted a couple of ways. Especially coupled with the last point in the “get ready” section on page 39.

b) ditto my skills. Can I use all my skills (up to level 4) right from the start or am I constrained again by the tile level, like the weapons and equipment?

(Apologies for the thread necromancy.)


You start at the level of your highest character OR the lowest tile of the mission whichever is greater. If the mission has levels 1-5 and you have levels 3 and 4 you start at level 4.

You can use anything level 4 and under but level 5 cannot be used till you get to the tile with level 5 on it. Artifacts are considered level 4. Also I don't think you can carry over more than 6 items, including 1 artifact to the next game per character.

You're not constrained by tile level since all the tiles prior to 5 are now as if they said level 4. BUT while the treasures on that tile are the actual tokens on the tiles (probably level 1 on the first tile), the THREATS are level 4. So your treasure is probably not going to be that useful to you, but the threats will be a serious threat.

One of the problems of story mode is that you end up having to keep two sets of equipment, one you can use in the next adventure and the stuff you REALLY want to use and that is constraining. And there's no internal reason in the story as to why this should be.

Love the game, but Story mode isn't quite right.
 
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CK Lai
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Thanks for the replies! I’ve been playing wrong re: equipment all along!

So basically with my level 3 and 4 heroes, when I’m on tile 1 (with the level 1 marker on it) and I spawn some enemies or monsters, they will be level 4 monsters/enemies?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Chinkster wrote:
Thanks for the replies! I’ve been playing wrong re: equipment all along!

So basically with my level 3 and 4 heroes, when I’m on tile 1 (with the level 1 marker on it) and I spawn some enemies or monsters, they will be level 4 monsters/enemies?


Yes, and they carry Level 4 treasure. But if you open a treasure chest, the stuff inside is Level 1 and if a event card tells you to spawn a monster at the current level's tile + 1, it would spawn on the Level 2 marker.
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CK Lai
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Clipper wrote:
Chinkster wrote:
Thanks for the replies! I’ve been playing wrong re: equipment all along!

So basically with my level 3 and 4 heroes, when I’m on tile 1 (with the level 1 marker on it) and I spawn some enemies or monsters, they will be level 4 monsters/enemies?


Yes, and they carry Level 4 treasure. But if you open a treasure chest, the stuff inside is Level 1 and if a event card tells you to spawn a monster at the current level's tile + 1, it would spawn on the Level 2 marker.


Got it. Thanks so much. I have been playing it wrong and I can see why some folks are saying campaign mode makes the heroes OP.

I may stick to playing it my old (wrong) way as there was a bit more of a challenge there
 
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David Griffin
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Chinkster wrote:
Clipper wrote:
Chinkster wrote:
Thanks for the replies! I’ve been playing wrong re: equipment all along!

So basically with my level 3 and 4 heroes, when I’m on tile 1 (with the level 1 marker on it) and I spawn some enemies or monsters, they will be level 4 monsters/enemies?


Yes, and they carry Level 4 treasure. But if you open a treasure chest, the stuff inside is Level 1 and if a event card tells you to spawn a monster at the current level's tile + 1, it would spawn on the Level 2 marker.


Got it. Thanks so much. I have been playing it wrong and I can see why some folks are saying campaign mode makes the heroes OP.

I may stick to playing it my old (wrong) way as there was a bit more of a challenge there


Your characters still tend to overpower the monsters in story mode by about game 4 or 5, even with these rules. City of the Dwarves (fan made campaign in the forums for the game) stretches this a few game by restricting treasure. I still like it, but it's not a LONG campaign.
 
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Chuck Hurd
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Chinkster wrote:
I may stick to playing it my old (wrong) way as there was a bit more of a challenge there

How were you playing it that made it more of a challenge? I'm curious to know if you have a decent variant at hand.
 
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Carcking wrote:
Chinkster wrote:
I may stick to playing it my old (wrong) way as there was a bit more of a challenge there

How were you playing it that made it more of a challenge? I'm curious to know if you have a decent variant at hand.


Started with Level 1 equipment so was very limited in what I carried due to the 6 item limit. Could only use the equipment once I entered the tile with the "next level" marker. Skills I kept. (My misunderstanding was : since in one shot mode, you could use any equipment once you got it, regardless of level, but you could only level up once you reached the tile for that level; in campaign mode it would be the other way round. I really don't know how or why I came to that conclusion, but that's how I've played it!)
 
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Chuck Hurd
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Chinkster wrote:
Carcking wrote:
Chinkster wrote:
I may stick to playing it my old (wrong) way as there was a bit more of a challenge there

How were you playing it that made it more of a challenge? I'm curious to know if you have a decent variant at hand.


Started with Level 1 equipment so was very limited in what I carried due to the 6 item limit. Could only use the equipment once I entered the tile with the "next level" marker. Skills I kept. (My misunderstanding was : since in one shot mode, you could use any equipment once you got it, regardless of level, but you could only level up once you reached the tile for that level; in campaign mode it would be the other way round. I really don't know how or why I came to that conclusion, but that's how I've played it!)

Ah yes, I see. Sure, starting every dungeon in campaign mode with level 1 equipment would definitely be a challenge...especially with level 4 monsters with level 4 equipment coming at you.

It could be a good twist though if those monsters start on the tile of their current level. Then you would have a sense of "oh crap, here comes a pack of orcs with big weapons. We need to find something fast to get ready!" But then perhaps spawning in rooms for opening doors could be at tile level, like the treasures are. Might be a fun variant to try.

Currently, the way it works is you start on tile 1 in a level 4 dungeon. None of your equipment works and you don't need to open any doors or find equipment on tiles 1, 2 or 3. You just race to tile 4 so you can start using your stuff. There is no reason to clear the rest of the dungeon.
 
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David Griffin
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Carcking wrote:
Chinkster wrote:
Carcking wrote:
Chinkster wrote:
I may stick to playing it my old (wrong) way as there was a bit more of a challenge there

How were you playing it that made it more of a challenge? I'm curious to know if you have a decent variant at hand.


Started with Level 1 equipment so was very limited in what I carried due to the 6 item limit. Could only use the equipment once I entered the tile with the "next level" marker. Skills I kept. (My misunderstanding was : since in one shot mode, you could use any equipment once you got it, regardless of level, but you could only level up once you reached the tile for that level; in campaign mode it would be the other way round. I really don't know how or why I came to that conclusion, but that's how I've played it!)

Ah yes, I see. Sure, starting every dungeon in campaign mode with level 1 equipment would definitely be a challenge...especially with level 4 monsters with level 4 equipment coming at you.

It could be a good twist though if those monsters start on the tile of their current level. Then you would have a sense of "oh crap, here comes a pack of orcs with big weapons. We need to find something fast to get ready!" But then perhaps spawning in rooms for opening doors could be at tile level, like the treasures are. Might be a fun variant to try.

Currently, the way it works is you start on tile 1 in a level 4 dungeon. None of your equipment works and you don't need to open any doors or find equipment on tiles 1, 2 or 3. You just race to tile 4 so you can start using your stuff. There is no reason to clear the rest of the dungeon.


Well, what happens is that in game 2 you have maybe level 1 (which you kept so you'd have SOMETHING you could equip) and level 2-3 gear. You equip the level 1 stuff and when you finally get to the higher tiles you can spend an action to change equipment. And the 6 limit bites because you have to effectively keep 2 sets of equipment.

What you describe in the monsters DOES happen. Consider you draw an event card that says place a monster on the current tile. If you're starting at level 4 (because you have at least one character at level 4) then there are effectively maybe 4 level 4 tiles. What happens is the monster gets placed on the level 4 tile (way in front of you) or the level +1 tile (which is even further ahead). So you DO get a lot of monsters headed toward you. This does give you the opportunity to decide when to hide and where. All your characters duck into a room in a dark zone and the monsters go past. Then you rocket out and around the corner and stay on the dark zones. Now the monsters have even LONGER a road till they get to you.

Normally this is good, but if an Agent spawns, it is REALLY bad. Then you sometimes have to race ahead and kill the monster at range with your ranged character(s). I typically take 2 rangers with me.

The downside for this mode is the 1/5 XP you get for nearly everything and the fact that eventually, about game 4, you can handle most monsters pretty easily. You set them up down a long hallway and snipe them before they get close. Or if they're ranged you duck out a doorway and twang twang you wear them down till they die.
 
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carbon_dragon wrote:
What you describe in the monsters DOES happen. Consider you draw an event card that says place a monster on the current tile. If you're starting at level 4 (because you have at least one character at level 4) then there are effectively maybe 4 level 4 tiles. What happens is the monster gets placed on the level 4 tile (way in front of you) or the level +1 tile (which is even further ahead). So you DO get a lot of monsters headed toward you. This does give you the opportunity to decide when to hide and where. All your characters duck into a room in a dark zone and the monsters go past. Then you rocket out and around the corner and stay on the dark zones. Now the monsters have even LONGER a road till they get to you.

Normally this is good, but if an Agent spawns, it is REALLY bad. Then you sometimes have to race ahead and kill the monster at range with your ranged character(s). I typically take 2 rangers with me.

The downside for this mode is the 1/5 XP you get for nearly everything and the fact that eventually, about game 4, you can handle most monsters pretty easily. You set them up down a long hallway and snipe them before they get close. Or if they're ranged you duck out a doorway and twang twang you wear them down till they die.


I think it happens a little bit off from that.

Page 38 wrote:
Event Cards
In Story Mode, when an Event card references the Current Level, this is considered the highest Level token in a Tile occupied by a Hero. For any other purpose follow the normal rules for “Current Level”.

EXAMPLE:
Elias (who has a Level 5 Skill) has reached the Tile with the Level 3 token while all other party members are still on the Tile with the Level 2 token. During the Event Phase, players draw an Event card that says, “Spawn a Guard card in the Zone holding the Token of the Current Level +1”. This Guard will Spawn on the Zone containing the Level 4 token, since Elias is the Hero on the farthest tile .


I think it actually means the Guardian will appear relative to the party member furthest along the map. In Square in front of the party leader (current +1), in the square with the party leader (current), or in the square behind the party leader (current -1) also known as "the square with the guy from the beginning of the round who killed the monster and then everyone ran off".

Carbon_Dragon wrote:
You're not constrained by tile level since all the tiles prior to 5 are now as if they said level 4. BUT while the treasures on that tile are the actual tokens on the tiles (probably level 1 on the first tile), the THREATS are level 4. So your treasure is probably not going to be that useful to you, but the threats will be a serious threat.


Thank you for that point, we were missing that one while playing our 2nd to last round (at level 2)

of course we also missed ...

page 8 wrote:
Guard and Treasure card piles, from Level 1 to 4, are not reshuffled. If a player has to draw from such an exhausted pile, he draws from the pile of the next-higher Level instead. Level 5 Guard and Treasure piles are reshuffled normally when exhausted, as players can’t draw from a higher Level.


Which means we ran through the level 2 treasures (quest 3 with 2 level 2 tiles, so about 24 of treasures) twice or so because most of the party started with level 2 equipment. We definitely pulled the Stun trap a few times.
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