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Subject: Card Interaction Clarification rss

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Noah Cotterill
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Hello, I recently purchased Smash Up (and very quickly several of the expansion sets) and have been having a lot of fun and playing a ton. We have recently run into several card interactions that resulted in heated disagreements about the outcome of the various plays and was hoping that we could get a bit of clarification on each of them if possible. I'll post the scenarios and just refer to all parties as players so as to remove any potential bias there may be when considering the answer.

Scenario #1:

A base is in the process of being scored, when player one plays an action card with a special that allows it to be played during base scoring (I can't remember the exact card, but I believe it was being played out of the mega troopers faction). Player two immediately plays the Will Wheaton card which has a special that allows it to be played after an action as been played to block that action. Player one argues that Will Wheaton should not be able to be played as the base is in the process of being scored, and his special doesn't state it can be played during scoring.

Long story short, can a special be played if it's condition is met regardless of context?


Scenario #2 (getting a little more funky):

Player one has an alien scout in play on a base, and player two plays a flower child card from the elves faction taking control of the scout, and moving the scout to their scoring cards in play on the base and the flower child to player one's in play cards on the same base. After the turn comes back around to the alien player they play an alien collector card on the flower child which is currently in their in play cards. The flower child card states that once the card leaves play the initial cards are switched back to their original owners.

A player believes that because the collector card was targeted at the flower child that it would be returned to the owners hand, which since it is now out of play, would be the original owner, and that the scout card would then stay in play but be returned to the alien player's in play cards.

Another player believes that the spell is broken but because the collector was originally targeting their own (alien's in play) card, that the scout should be returned to the alien player's hand (though the flower child was the target of collector) and that the flower child would remain in play but switch back to the elves player's in play cards.


There are a couple more scenarios but these were the most immediately pressing and was hoping anyone could provide some insight, or feedback on the above as convoluted as they may be.
 
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Brendon Browning
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COLORADO SPRINGS
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Scenario 1:
Why can't a minion be played before a base breaks? The Ninjas Shinobi most certainly can.
Wil Wheaton is a valid play. Special cards can be played anytime their conditions are met.

Scenario 2:
Alien collector: "You may return a minion of power 3 or less on this base to its owner's hand."
Flower Child: "You may give another player control of this minion until it leaves play, to take control of one of that player's minions of power 3 or less until it leaves play."

Player B plays Flower Child, takes control of Alien Scout and gives control of Flower Child to Player A.
Player A now plays an Alien collector, and targets a minion of power 3 or less. He can target one of his minions or another players minions. If player A targets Flower Child, it targets Flower Child -- it does not somehow vicariously target Alien Scout. Therefore, Flower Child leaves play, and as ALWAYS, returns to OWNERS hand, and Player B keeps control of Scout. The same thing wound happen if Player A targeted the Alien Scout. The scout returns to OWNERS hand, and Player A gets to play that scout on another turn, and keep control of Flower Child.
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Mike Czerniewski
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First off, welcome to the game.

paeori wrote:

Scenario #1:

A base is in the process of being scored, when player one plays an action card with a special that allows it to be played during base scoring (I can't remember the exact card, but I believe it was being played out of the mega troopers faction). Player two immediately plays the Will Wheaton card which has a special that allows it to be played after an action as been played to block that action. Player one argues that Will Wheaton should not be able to be played as the base is in the process of being scored, and his special doesn't state it can be played during scoring.

Long story short, can a special be played if it's condition is met regardless of context?


Regarding Specials: you can technically play them at any time, but their effects only kick in when the situation describes on the card applies. Wil Wheaton (best card in the entire game) is a perfect example, as you can play him out of turn to cancel another player's action as it is being played - and he gets to stay on the table as a power 4 minion. (Force of Wil works the same way but is a one-off action.)

Quote:

Scenario #2 (getting a little more funky):

Player one has an alien scout in play on a base, and player two plays a flower child card from the elves faction taking control of the scout, and moving the scout to their scoring cards in play on the base and the flower child to player one's in play cards on the same base. After the turn comes back around to the alien player they play an alien collector card on the flower child which is currently in their in play cards. The flower child card states that once the card leaves play the initial cards are switched back to their original owners.

A player believes that because the collector card was targeted at the flower child that it would be returned to the owners hand, which since it is now out of play, would be the original owner, and that the scout card would then stay in play but be returned to the alien player's in play cards.

Another player believes that the spell is broken but because the collector was originally targeting their own (alien's in play) card, that the scout should be returned to the alien player's hand (though the flower child was the target of collector) and that the flower child would remain in play but switch back to the elves player's in play cards.


This is an interesting situation, and one that becomes crystal clear if you play with Ignobles.

The Collector does say that the card goes back to its owner's hand. In the case of Flower Child, the owner is the Elves player, so that's the hand it goes back to.

In this scenario, the Scout would indeed return to the Aliens player.
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Wim D
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Mervil wrote:

Flower Child: "You may give another player control of this minion until it (=flower child) leaves play, to take control of one of that player's minions of power 3 or less until it (=that other minion) leaves play."

I added some clarification to flower child's text. "It" has two different meanings on the card.
 
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Brendon Browning
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To clarify a few points:

skidawgkc22 wrote:

Regarding Specials: you can technically play them at any time, but their effects only kick in when the situation describes on the card applies.

I would say this is not exactly true. You can't play specials whenever you want, and just ignore the card text if the card text conditions are not met. You can only play a card when the conditions specified by game rules or card text are met.

skidawgkc22 wrote:

In this scenario, the Scout would indeed return to the Aliens player.

Scout would only return to the Alien players hand if it was specifically targeted by Collector. Scout would NOT return if Flower Child was selected. When Flower Child leaves play, its "switch control" effect that occurred when it was played doesn't get undone.

paeori wrote:
The flower child card states that once the card leaves play the initial cards are switched back to their original owners.

Flower Child card doesn't actually say this. The card doesn't have an ongoing effect. When the card is played, you MAY give control of Flower Child to an opponent and then take control of one of their minions of power 3 or less. Once this effect has occurred, the card text is done. No text about reversal if the card leaves play.

Also, I would recommend you read about "control" vs "owner" in the game instructions.
 
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Noah Cotterill
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Thanks for the quick responses guys, I do think after closer consideration that Mervil is right about the Flower Child, and that the Scout would remain in control of the Elves player but that the Flower Child would be returned to the Elves hands once targeted by the Controller. I feel like the wording on that card is somewhat ambiguous though with the use of the word "it" in reference to both cards; but it makes sense looking at it more that "it" is referring to each different card in each part of the description, meaning Scout would stay in control of the Elves hand even when Flower Child leaves play. For additional reference, I was the player who was saying that Flower Child should be returned to the owner (elves) hand in the first place, but I missed the interpretation that scout would remain in control of the Elves player after return as well.

I was already pretty much 100% sure about the Will Wheaton effect and special effects in general, I was also the player who played Will Wheaton at that time, and felt it was a completely valid play. This just brings clarification to the situation for the other players.

I was also curious about order of processing when you are looking at cards and abilities, we ran into a situation during play which we were pretty much all in agreement on, but it did make me question order in which things are processed when looking at card interactions. Here was the situation:

Leprechaun was in play on base by player 1 which states "Ongoing: After another player plays a minion here with less power than this minion's power, destroy it (resolve its ability first)."

On player 2's turn they played a Sakura Warrior which states "Reduce a minion's power here by the number of your minions here until the start of your next turn". They already had 1 minion there before playing this. Sakura warrior has 4 power. The question is in which order does this interaction process? Do you first consider the relative powers for leperchaun so 5>4 meaning by the end of the turn Sakura Warrior is destroyed and then resolve its ability? Or does Sakura Warrior's ability first bring down Leprechauns power to 4 meaning Sakura Warrior is not destroyed? We all pretty much agreed that Sakura Warrior's ability would be resolves leaving her not destroyed, but it did raise the question of how card interactions like these are process/the order in which they are resolved.
 
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Brendon Browning
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You were all correct. In the most recent expansions, they have actually spelled out a card resolution order, but I find it somewhat ambiguous and confusing. That being said, Leprechaun does state that the played minions card text is resolved first, so Sakura Warrior does its power reduction to Leprechaun, and then Leprechaun attempts to destroy the minion that was just played, but can't because it's power is now lower than the played minion.
 
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Vespert Ilio
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Mervil wrote:
You were all correct. In the most recent expansions, they have actually spelled out a card resolution order, but I find it somewhat ambiguous and confusing. That being said, Leprechaun does state that the played minions card text is resolved first, so Sakura Warrior does its power reduction to Leprechaun, and then Leprechaun attempts to destroy the minion that was just played, but can't because it's power is now lower than the played minion.

Actually, no. Sakura Warrior's ability is a talent, which is an ability that only activates when its controller is free to activate it. When a minion comes into play, only on-play and ongoing abilities are immediately resolved.
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Wim D
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Vespert wrote:
Mervil wrote:
You were all correct. In the most recent expansions, they have actually spelled out a card resolution order, but I find it somewhat ambiguous and confusing. That being said, Leprechaun does state that the played minions card text is resolved first, so Sakura Warrior does its power reduction to Leprechaun, and then Leprechaun attempts to destroy the minion that was just played, but can't because it's power is now lower than the played minion.

Actually, no. Sakura Warrior's ability is a talent, which is an ability that only activates when its controller is free to activate it. When a minion comes into play, only on-play and ongoing abilities are immediately resolved.

This is the right answer.
 
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