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Subject: Lashback Vs. Toxins (My Analysis and Clarification is Needed) rss

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David Martin
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Hello guys, this situation is leaving me scratching my head a little. I searched for a ruling on this matter in the forum and on Chip Theory Games website and for the life of me could not find the solution to this.

Lashback #: After this unit is damaged by an adjacent opposing unit, this unit will do # Dmg back, so long as it was not defeated.

Poison #: Set or reset a Poison effect die on target to #. Target takes True Dmg equal to Effect Die # at the start of their turn. After applying Dmg, reduce Effect Die by 1 (Only 1 Poison Effect Die per target).

So let's consider this situation. Patches is adjacent to a Dire Wolf Alpha that has Lashback 3. Patches targets the Dire Wolf Alpha and rolls some defense and a Toxin die and gets some defense and a Poison 2 Effect. He puts the Poison 2 Effect Die on the Dire Wolf Alpha. So far, no damage has occurred. The Dire Wolf Alpha does not Lashback at this point. Is this correct?

Now it's the Dire Wolf Alpha's turn, it takes 2 True Damage and the Poison Effect Die is reduced by 1. If Patches is still adjacent to it, does the Dire Wolf Alpha Lashback against Patches?

One could argue that it's not Patches damaging it, but rather it's the Poison's Effect that is doing the damage. Although, Patches is the one that administered it and I guess you could argue that Patches is therefore damaging it...

I would think it would Lashback against Patches if Patches were adjacent, but I'm wondering if this is perhaps a loophole.

Any thoughts?
 
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B K
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industrialchild wrote:
Hello guys, this situation is leaving me scratching my head a little. I searched for a ruling on this matter in the forum and on Chip Theory Games website and for the life of me could not find the solution to this.

Lashback #: After this unit is damaged by an adjacent opposing unit, this unit will do # Dmg back, so long as it was not defeated.

Poison #: Set or reset a Poison effect die on target to #. Target takes True Dmg equal to Effect Die # at the start of their turn. After applying Dmg, reduce Effect Die by 1 (Only 1 Poison Effect Die per target).

So let's consider this situation. Patches is adjacent to a Dire Wolf Alpha that has Lashback 3. Patches targets the Dire Wolf Alpha and rolls some defense and a Toxin die and gets some defense and a Poison 2 Effect. He puts the Poison 2 Effect Die on the Dire Wolf Alpha. So far, no damage has occurred. The Dire Wolf Alpha does not Lashback at this point. Is this correct?

Now it's the Dire Wolf Alpha's turn, it takes 2 True Damage and the Poison Effect Die is reduced by 1. If Patches is still adjacent to it, does the Dire Wolf Alpha Lashback against Patches?

One could argue that it's not Patches damaging it, but rather it's the Poison's Effect that is doing the damage. Although, Patches is the one that administered it and I guess you could argue that Patches is therefore damaging it...

I would think it would Lashback against Patches if Patches were adjacent, but I'm wondering if this is perhaps a loophole.

Any thoughts?


I agree you would not take damage on the initial administration of poison. My interpretation (and that is all it is) would be that on the wolf's turn, the poison effect would not activate lashback. It really comes down to whether effect dice have "memory" as to who applied them such that the effects would be attributed as if caused by that character. I don't think I have seen this explicitly stated, by my gut feel based on how effect dice generally play out is they don't have memory in that way (there is no tracking mechanism in place for this, no mention to remember who applied an effect, etc.). Maybe someone has seen something definitive and provide a more firm answer, but I think the most reasonable interpretation is that you would not take damage when poison is applied or when it activates.
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Dave Drinkle
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Somewhere on BGG someone asked a question about poison related to Tantrum's Poison Armor, where they were wondering if the poison killed the baddie, could Tantrum up-tick his body count die.

Josh or Adam from CTG responded saying that No tantrum could not up-tick his body count, because Tantrum didn't kill the baddie, but the poison did. Implying that even though Tantrum was the one to administer the poison, he didn't actually put damage on the baddie.

I think this same logic can be used here. Even though Patches administered the poison, he doesn't cause lashback to be evoked. When the poison does give damage, it's the poison doing the damage, not Patches, so there's nothing to lashback against.

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David Martin
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Awesome B.K. and Dave! Thank you for the responses!

I think it's awesome that Patches is able to do this on the sly. Great stuff! This game offers so many tactical possibilities...It's safe to say I'm addicted at this point!

Here's to many more adventures!
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