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Subject: How does Lashback on a Baddie interact with Tantrum's Exhaustion check? rss

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Jonah Siegel
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Going through the rulebook, it appears that enemy skills such as Lashback trigger during the Gearloc's turn, but after the Gearloc is completely done resolving their dice roll. Does this, however, occur before or after Tantrum's exhaustion is checked. For instance, say that Tantrum attacks a Dire Wolf, raising his rage to 2.6. Which of the following scenarios would happen:

A. After Tantrum finishes resolving his dice, the Dire Wolf lashes back, raising Tantrum's rage to 3.0. He is unable to use any skills to change this. His exhaustion is then checked, resetting his rage to 1.0.

B. After Tantrum finishes resolving his dice, his Exhaustion is checked and nothing happens. The Dire Wolf lashes back, raising Tantrum's rage to 3.0. He is unable to use any skills to change this until his next turn.

C. The Dire Wolf lashes back immediately, raising Tantrum's rage to 3.0. He can use Anger Management or Calm Down to lower it to 2.8 and then use Execute to defeat the Dire Wolf.

C is actually how I had been playing, but seems wrong now based on what the rules say about turn structure. A seems like the most accurate following a literal interpretation of the rules, but also the most unfair.
 
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Shannon
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Good catch! We always play Lashback as happening simultaneously, but I agree the rules say to resolve it after the roll and other abilities are resolved.

I would say A fits best with the rules as written. Breakdown is definitely after Lashback, because it says "end of turn." But, you can always manipulate the Rage die BEFORE Lashback kicks in, as Breakdown is predictable and likely avoidable in this case. If Rage is at 2.8 before/after hitting the Wolf, use Execute or Advance before Lashback occurs; and if it's at 2.6, Use Get Angry and then Execute or Advance.
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George Aristides
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It's C.

Checking for the breakdown happens at the very end of Tantrum's turn. During his turn, he can use Anger Managemenent or Calm Down to reduce his rage.

However, a better strategy is the following which I believe is legal:

1) Tantrum targets and attacks the Dire Wolf.
2) This upticks his rage to 2.6
3) Tantrum chooses not to apply any rolled damage from the attack. Instead, he uses his backup plan or Anger management to uptick his rage to 2.8 and execute the baddie. No lashback occurs as the wolf is dead.



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Matt
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So attack means you've attempted to attack but not necessarily apply damage?
interesting this prob changes a few things for me
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Shannon
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cranky_hobbit wrote:
So attack means you've attempted to attack but not necessarily apply damage?
interesting this prob changes a few things for me


No, I don't believe that is correct. You haven't "attacked" if you choose not to apply any of your attack dice.
 
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Jeremiah
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brighterthanthesun wrote:
cranky_hobbit wrote:
So attack means you've attempted to attack but not necessarily apply damage?
interesting this prob changes a few things for me


No, I don't believe that is correct. You haven't "attacked" if you choose not to apply any of your attack dice.


In the in depth section at the end of the rulebook, an attack is defined as rolling the attack dice but doesn't say they need to be applied.
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Shannon
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orson9999999 wrote:
In the in depth section at the end of the rulebook, an attack is defined as rolling the attack dice but doesn't say they need to be applied.


You're too fast! I came back to delete my comment after consulting the rules.

But, going back to the OP, Lashback does not kick in immediately. It kicks in after the "Resolve Your Roll" step which is also when you can use BP, etc. So I still think A is correct... But the scenario George stated above is also valid.
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George Aristides
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brighterthanthesun wrote:

It kicks in after the "Resolve Your Roll" step which is also when you can use BP, etc. So I still think A is correct... But the scenario George stated above is also valid.


I would say Lashback kicks in *during* the resolve your roll step, as an immediate response of you choosing to use some of your dice to deal damage to the wolf.

You can then carry on to use a rolled Anger Management to reduce the rage.

I also believe you can use backup plans at any time during your turn, even after the Lashback.

So it must be C. After the lashback, you would have the chance to reduce your rage down from 3.0 as long as you have the means to do so. Your turn would then end, and "at the end of your turn" you would not suffer breakdown.
 
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Shannon
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Going off of pg. 19 of the rulebook, there is a set timing for Backup Plan (which is, while resolving your roll), and then Baddies react after you've finished resolving your roll. Here's what the rulebook says (reordered slightly for clarity):

Quote:

Gearloc’s Turn Sequence
...
6. Resolve the Roll:

After your dice are rolled, feel free to do any of the following, in no particular order:
• Resolve Target Dmg & Effects: Total up and apply Dmg and any other Dmg results or effects from your Skills to your target.
• Resolve Non-Target Dmg & Effects: Some Skills may apply to non-target Baddies. Others may be Instant Skills that do not apply to Baddies at all. Go ahead and use these Skills as desired.
• Allocate Active, Locked & Backup Plan Dice: Place any rolled you want to use into
open Active slots. You may also place any applicable Skills into your Active (or a Gearloc’s Ally Active) & Locked slots. Also, you may place
in Backup Plan slots as desired.
• Use your Backup Plan: You may use your Backup Plan only once per turn. Remove [#]
to use BP Skill that costs [#].

7. Baddies React: Sometimes Baddies have Skills that kick in after they are attacked.
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George Aristides
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Wow. If you can indeed only use your backup plan during that very narrow window, i have been playing it wrong all along, and backup plans are a lot less useful.

I still think you should be allowed to use backup plans at any time during your turn..
 
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