Jared Cowing
United States
California
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Hi all,
This question may have an obvious answer, but I have to ask anyway.
Ferengi route to victory means buying culture, but because of the high conversion rate (5:1), they need to amass huge piles of production resources. I just tried this in a game, and what happened was since I had so much production already, I simply researched weapons, built tons of ships and won militarily.

My question: If lots of production is needed for either type of victory, is it ever "cheaper" or wiser to buy culture rather than just buy massive fleets? In my test game, I just couldn't see how sinking the 'latinum' into culture was worth it when I could so easily buy so many ships (even without the battle perks of other races). Can someone explain how the military vs culture options balance out for Ferengi in most games? Perhaps mine may have just been an outlier of a game, since my two opponents were a bit weakened from fighting each other and barely upgraded their weapons/shields.
 
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Angelus Seniores
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i do think as well that the ferengi are more likely to win militarily than by culture.

if you look at it to get 4 more ascendancy tokens they need 20 culture tokens, each priced 5 production so thats 100 production. for that price, if they have the tech "buy 2 get 3" they can get 150 ships.
and im sure that even with only a part of those they can win militarily, even with less than 100 ships if buying them at normal price.

given that the ferengi can get tech from other faction's tech decks it means they can even get some military tech to support their ships.

sure some culture may be gotten normally by taking over other player's culture nodes and their starting culture node, but even then i think that the conquest victory is more easier to achieve.

they might go for culture if they are lucky enough to get extra culture nodes, but otherwise i dont think so.

in the prototype version they had a tech to reduce the culture price from 5 to 4 production, but it seems they removed it and instead put a tech to lower the culture cost for hegemony and colonization.
 
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Andrew S.
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Angelsenior wrote:
i do think as well that the ferengi are more likely to win militarily than by culture.

if you look at it to get 4 more ascendancy tokens they need 20 culture tokens, each priced 5 production so thats 100 production. for that price, if they have the tech "buy 2 get 3" they can get 150 ships.
and im sure that even with only a part of those they can win militarily, even with less than 100 ships if buying them at normal price.

given that the ferengi can get tech from other faction's tech decks it means they can even get some military tech to support their ships.

sure some culture may be gotten normally by taking over other player's culture nodes and their starting culture node, but even then i think that the conquest victory is more easier to achieve.

they might go for culture if they are lucky enough to get extra culture nodes, but otherwise i dont think so.

in the prototype version they had a tech to reduce the culture price from 5 to 4 production, but it seems they removed it and instead put a tech to lower the culture cost for hegemony and colonization.


I’ve played as the Ferengi four times now. In three of those games, I won handily by going the culture route. The fourth I was betrayed at the perfect time by some Cardassians.

For me, what makes the culture route preferable to using your production to win by conquest is the number of commands necessary to pull off a victory. Winning with your military takes an enormous amount of resources in terms of both production and commands considering that the Ferengi have no Advancements that improve their military. Sure, they can steal them from their rivals decks, but doing so can easily be interpreted as an act of war and it still takes time to turn that Project into a usable Advancement and during that time you’re being attacked.

Furthermore, your calculations are a bit off. You forget to include the 1 Culture node on Ferenginnar and it also seems that you are assuming that the 100-odd Production is acquired all at once. While the Ferengi are building up to the point where they have a massive amount of Production, your rivals are undoubtedly building their own civilizations and if they are playing to their strengths (which you aren’t if you’re trying to win with your military) they will win before you can get your fleet to crush them.

On the other hand, If you try and be everyone’s friend and give no one reason to bother you, it’s actually quite easy to get the required Production so long as you never end up drawing attention to yourself by stock-piling Production or building massive ships. But! And this is a huge But! In order to get that much Production, your ships have to spread out. This gets in the way of a decent military (unless you disband your far-flung ships which is a huge waste). I had several turns where I pulled in over 20 Production a turn and given the fact that my rivals were getting more then 5 Production s turn from being my friend, there was no incentive to attack me.

In short, I believe the military approach is a method of last resort when no one will trade with you but even then, the Ferengi have tricks that should let them acquire the necessary culture so long as they aren’t wasting ships by getting them destroyed in battle.
As my Klingon rival once said when I wanted to put ships in orbit of more of his systems, “What if you decide to attack me?” My reply was to point out how much Production I would be losing in the next few turns and how long it would take me to get that investment back even if the war went in my favour. I then finished with, “Not very profitable.”
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